I eventually figured out why guitarists are always so loud

[dbsfgyd1]

I know some people like the way the JC120 sounds, but IMHO .

I own several classic, vintage all-tube guitar amps. IMHO most of them can be dialed in to sound pretty decent at a reasonable volume, especially if you have a decent compressor pedal. BUT! A 100W Marshall played at bedroom level does not sound like a 100W Marshall that is cranked to the max.

You could reasonably argue that a guitarist should use a lower powered amp that can be dialed in to sound and feel great at a reasonable volume. However, part of the reason why people like really loud sound is because it stimulates their endocrine system and puts them into a state of excitement. It's actually sort of an addiction, where you crank up to get a hit.

Other factors.
-A lot of guitarists have damaged their ears, which means the have to turn up even more to hear the desired tone and hit.
-As @Gearhead17 mentioned, many guitar players can't stand the sound that comes out the front of their rig. This is partly because of the way they adjust the amp IMHO, but also it relates to the type of experience they want. In essence they are looking for more of a diffuse sound that seems to completely surround them. So rather than hearing the direct sound, they want to crank the amp so loud that they can key of the indirect sound bouncing around the room....(IMHO this is the biggest part of the problem).

So, the primary problem is the guitarist pumping the room full of reverberant energy, and result is the SPL is pretty much the same at all points within a significant distance of the guitar amp. In other the SPL of the guitar is pretty much the same for all band members.

In my experience most people want to hear themself about 6-10dB louder than any other sound source. The SPL of a point source drops by 6dB for each doubling of distance. So if you are 4' from your bass rig, the guitarist needs to be 8' for your sound to drop off by 6dB from the SPL you hear. The problem is the guitar signal does not drop off by 6dB for each doubling of distance if the guitarist is pumping the room full of reverberant energy rather keying off the the direct sound coming out the front of his/her amp.

Even worse, some guitarists will try to aim their cranked amp across the stage, so you may be hit with a very bright and harsh tone that is significantly louder than the reflected sound the guitarist is keying off.

My take is if you are getting paid, you should be concerned about what the audience wants. If the audience wants massive volume then feel free to rock out. But in my experience many bands would get more work if they learned how to deliver a good show at a much lower volume. It's a different set of priorities and also a different type of experience. Those who insist the sound always has to be extremely loud are usually focusing on what they want, rather than what the audience wants. Not a very professional attitude if you ask me.

 

[tothemax]

When I play guitar I play through a VOX AC-15, and while it sounds great cranked. You can live with a slightly "affected" tone by dialing in and then using a combination of the volume and master volume to dial it back.

FYI: The Blues Jr. is 15w, just like the AC-15, when you need more volume, say for a small/medium gig just add a 2x12 cab and either one lights up. Both are great amps, the Peavy Bandit is no slouch - I also had a Sunn Alpha 112 back in the day also SS, it sounded pretty decent as well.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Amen! But, to this day, the absolute best rock guitar sound I've ever heard came out of a 71 Les Paul Custom into a Fender Dual Showman powering a 4-12 Marshall cab (It's a cleaner sound that using the Marshal 100) cranked. Second best, a Les Paul deluxe in the a 100 Hiwatt Custom into an Hiwatt 4-12 cab (Kind of the same as #1 but much louder and cleaner), the third, a Strat into Mesa Dual Rectifier with a Blues drive pedal and some sort of compression on it.

Today, the only one that would be remotely useful is that Mesa rig. But if you get the opportunity to fire off one of the other two, you will understand. Just don't do it for too long, or A you will be addicted, and B, hearing loss.

 

[Cave Puppy]

I remember seeing Del Shannon back in the day. We were about as far away as you could be from the stage and the guitarist's super reverb was pointed directly at us. We could everything he was playing without help from the PA. Super directional. Bass is uni-directional.

 

[Stewie]

One of the players on my band has a 5 watt Danelectro tube amp. The tone is absolutely and truly glorious. When the other guitar player is soloing, he often Jimi Hendrixes the little beast, which creates a cool feedback wail under the soloist. This at a volume so low that it is charming, not evil. He other guy has a pile of fancy tube amps and pedals(he knows how to use them all) and plays at appropriate levels. Dang it’s good to play with grownups

 

[Topkat13]

And I always thought it was because they turn their amps up real loud in combination with other band members not having the balls to tell them to turn down.

 

[two fingers]

I've been playing bass since the mid-eighties and I have always played a bit of acoustic guitar on the side. Lately, I've gotten more into electric guitar and was on the market for an all tube amp. Let's be honest, I played bass with countless guitarists and never heard a decent guitar tone coming from a solid state amp aside perhaps from a Roland JC120. So tube amp it had to be.

Well, after trying a few all tube combos, I realized why so many players are so gee-whilickers loud: even with a 30W all tube amp like a Blues Junior, or with a 15W amp VOX AC15 you already get a lot of volume and you just can't use them at low volume either or they sound awful. Needless to mention something like a 100W Twin Reverb! Anyhow, I got a 10W VOX AC10 and it is already loud enough for rehearsals and would easily keep up with a moderately loud drummer and a 300W SS bass amp.

All those years I thought they were loud because they were selfish and show off jerks. Perhaps I was wrong (...or not)

Full disclosure. The guy who invented these and owns the company is a personal friend. I have zero financial interest whatsoever in his company.

John is both a production guy and guitarist out of Nashville. He sees the issue from both sides. He invented this....

Speight Baffle Co.

The thing in front is a baffle. (Of course, he didn't invent the baffle.) It looks like an amp. It has sound proofing insulation in the back. It absolutely sucks up guitar volume like a vacuum. It's really impressive.

So, as a guitar player, when he travels he takes one with him. It allows him to crank his amp up enough to get "his tone" without bothering the rest of the band or the front of house mix. As a production guy, he'll run out to his car and grab one instead if telling the guitar player to turn down.

They're in about half the venues in Nashville. Ole Red even has custom black and red ones to fit their theme.

Have your cake and eat it too.

 

[burgerdj]

In my experience with loud guitar players is that they don’t understand the difference between input gain and master volume. Once they crack that code you can have a more productive discussion about volume.

 

[Hasty]

Try a 5W Fender '57 Custom Champ. It's not too loud cranked. And picture perfect for recording.

My guitarist has two amps that look almost identical. One is a 5W tube and the other is 15W. He always brings the one that matches the venue so he can set the levels appropriately. They both sound amazing and I just love that guy for doing that.

 

[kevmac]

I always raise my bass cabs on milk crates to get them closer to ear level among other reasons.

 

[And I]

if your experience has truly been that all guitarist play too loudly, you're playing with the wrong guitarists. many of them--across all genres--understand balance and set their volume levels appropriately for the situation.

 

[JRA]

I eventually figured out why guitarists are always so loud


"i'm an electric guitar player...i play a wimpy little instrument with wimpy little strings --- i get my street cred by playing at non-wimpy volumes so that non-wimpy people will notice me. but it's not called 'seeking attention' --- it's called 'establishing the cosmic balance'!"

 

[GregT]

I've played tube guitar amps all my life. Still have a Dr Z Z-Plus. I recently got a Tone Master Deluxe Reverb Blonde and it has me amazed. At only 24 pounds it is now my stage guitar amp when I play guitar and not bass. No tubes and it has a built in attenuator that actually works well. It sounds great even at low volumes. I think even Leo would have been proud.

 

[Eric Lester]

I've been playing bass since the mid-eighties and I have always played a bit of acoustic guitar on the side. Lately, I've gotten more into electric guitar and was on the market for an all tube amp. Let's be honest, I played bass with countless guitarists and never heard a decent guitar tone coming from a solid state amp aside perhaps from a Roland JC120. So tube amp it had to be.

Well, after trying a few all tube combos, I realized why so many players are so gee-whilickers loud: even with a 30W all tube amp like a Blues Junior, or with a 15W amp VOX AC15 you already get a lot of volume and you just can't use them at low volume either or they sound awful. Needless to mention something like a 100W Twin Reverb! Anyhow, I got a 10W VOX AC10 and it is already loud enough for rehearsals and would easily keep up with a moderately loud drummer and a 300W SS bass amp.

All those years I thought they were loud because they were selfish and show off jerks. Perhaps I was wrong (...or not)

Attenuator.

 

[12BitSlab]

Try a 5W Fender '57 Custom Champ. It's not too loud cranked. And picture perfect for recording.

Joe Walsh swears by a Fender Champ. Everyone seems to like his sound.

 

[J Wilson]

I'll be the first to admit that a JC120 for ANYTHING except that lush, clean chorus, is just about useless, I don't care if you put a Tube Screamer or anything else inline on the way in, it just ain't gonna fly like that. Of course, a big part of that is that unlike most SS guitar amps where they've left in 5-10% distortion to fool you into thinking it's 'warmth', the JC's two power amps are PA spec, ultra clean. So it's like running a guitar and a Tube Screamer into a channel on a mixer, just ain't happening.

But for that one thing though, I love them to the point I'd love to find one someday just to have as a bass practice amp for the house. And to be in continuous production since its intro in the 70's tells me a lot, especially when Roland has wholesale turnovers of their catalog frequently.

Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was . . . . .

 

[J Wilson]

Oh yeah, and in the old days, you'd trundle in with some big bass head and a folded 18 or some other appliance-sized cabinet, and he'd walk in with a 45-watt Peavey Pacer (God forbid he had a Twin or a Marshall half-stack) and you were screwed right from jump street, all you could hear was squalling guitar and some faint distorted bass as you were trying to keep up.

Then once, on the gig I got to try out an Acoustic head with the four 15's cabinet (two in the manifold and two front loaded, somebody help me remember which head that was in very early 80's . . .) only to be told to 'turn that thing down, you're killing us'. What a wonderful luxury that was . . . .

 

[GWGuitar]

All those years I thought they were loud because they were selfish and show off jerks. Perhaps I was wrong (...or not)

One of the reasons I came back to bass after many years is that it’s just easier to get a good sound with just fingers, bass and amp (and a cord, of course).

I have been a guitarist in bands more than a bassist. I learned to play bass for a jazz band, but as a guitarist, I played rock, prog, pop, blues, and folk. It’s just hard to get a good sound on guitar, especially in a cover band where you have to sound like different artists.

Tube amps sound best loud. They get beat up pretty good gigging. Solid state amps were more reliable, but didn’t sound as good. At one point I had 23 pedals in the pedalboard. Eventually I went to a rack setup with a tube preamp and some additional effects. I could plug that straight into the PA. It worked for utility, but it didn’t sound as good, admittedly.

Bass is nice. For 99% of what I play, I can just plug straight into an amp and it
sounds great.

 

[mike buzzetti]

as a gtr and bass player UMMM, from some of these replies I understand why some bass players deliver pizza now !!! , ok on to loudness and tube amps , tube amps ROCK and for good reason, the overdrive in a tube took 40 yrs to elmulate badly. low watts = more drive with out pissing off the bass player ( LOL ) and getting good tone . there are a million versions of the TONE/SOUND on guitar , all have a place but ONE amp will NOT cover it all ( much easier on bass with simple boxes , mainly EQ and drive ) so PLaying JAZZ on a 8x10 Marshall 100watt setup is not the best choice .

Ya we are loud and obnoxious but we give you the left over girls so ??!!!! LMFAO J/K !

( J/K=Just kidding)

 

[Ric5]

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