I thought this was foolproof my own self, but it's not. I still get into occasional arguments from soundmen who don't want to use it. And it's a very nice mic that's ideal for bass.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
i hate sound guys
- Thread starter Fretless925
- Start date
- Status
+1
This happen to us one time. The soundman's cheap passive DI was loading the pickups on the bass and it sounded to crap. I told him to use my Radial J48 but he said there was nothing wrong with his DI. He then told us it was our gear that was the problem. We were using an SVT-4PRO/810E and the bass was a MIA Fender Jazz V. I disconeted the Bass from his DI and plug it straight into the amp to show him. That shut him up.
People know when it sounds good, they might not know why or how, but they notice.
was gonna ignore this tripe, but......
that's a great way to buy a broken mic and be banned from a venue, besides getting your ass kicked.
don't forget the security staff will back up the crew in a heartbeat.
that is exactly what you don't do ever want to do, damage other peoples gear.
Hawkeye
Canuck Amateur
Although I'd be an idiot not to agree with the basic fundamentals of this "oft-used" phrase, it's also a lot of crap.
Yes, dynamics, volume (to a degree), and transient attack are in the hands (which is why I don't use a compressor). Also, based on the position of the plucking fingers (closer to the neck or closer to the bridge) the tonal character of the fretted notes can be significantly changed.
However, my "hands" will not dial in differing degrees of overdrive if I want. My "hands" will not give me a "chorus" effect when needed. My "hands" will not give me a bass boost, or midrange scoop, or bright attack, or tube break-up like my Genz-Benz heads do with the mere push of a footswitch. My Peavey 115 BVX-BW sounded very different from my current Genz Benz Neox 212t. The Peavey had excellent low end Whoompff, but my GB sits in the mix much better than the Peavey ever did. I'm really not sure how I would emulate that difference with only my "hands".
The electric bass guitar is only the first point in the tonal signal chain. The electric bass instrument is half the signal chain, the other half is your amplifier. After the signal leaves your bass via the instrument cable there are a whole lot of other useful and unique ways to vary the tone. You may not use them, but many bass players do.
Instrument
- "hands" (how you cause the string to vibrate)
- vibrating string
- pickup
- blend control
- active preamp
- active / passive tone controls
- master volume
Amplifier Rig
- bass preamplifier
- tone controls
- effects
- power amplifier
- speaker cabinet/s
The above doesn't even get into the subtle ways in which preamp gain and output interact with the power amplifier and the master volume. Nor have I gone into "10's vs 12's vs 15's" discussions. Just trying to keep it as simple as possible.
My preference is to take my GBE750 or ShuttleMAX 6.0 post pre DI out to the board and to give my rig only enough volume so that me and the drummer can hear. The soundman can do what he wants after that. In my experience, it's usually the guitar amps that are too loud.
Last year around this time my band played in a large concert hall with a very big professional PA system.
I was presented with a DI and a Fender Rumble 100 for monitoring. As the band did the soundcheck and they dialed up the monitors and subs I heard the usual rock concert characteristic bass tone. Overly-loud, indistinct, rumbling, boomy, can't-make-out-the-pitch-if-you-tried, billowing bass. The little Fender combo wasn't able to keep up with that. Thankfully the monitor mixer was a very nice young lady who (when I asked nicely) turned up the sidefill on my side with a little "more-me" and I was at least able to hear myself despite the poor tone for FOH. Sorry for the long rant.
Hawkeye
Canuck Amateur
+1
Yeah, that would grate on me too. I would be inclined to strongly suggest my Radial or Sans Amp DI's (which I bring to gigs) rather than play through something like that (especially if I had a passive bass).
We use those for vocals in John Wayne. I honestly like the DI sound better than the cab sound of my 112T genz benz. It is constant. Also, I can change stage volume without messing the sound guys mix up.
+1
I usually run my own sound, on bigger shows other people do it. Sometimes I run my rig for other people. Biggest gig killer is volume. Biggest waste of time is perusing "tone". Keep it turned down. Let the man mix.
The dummies guide to sound reinforcement aught to be a sticky. Until then,
This is the place to learn.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Link Removed
The only issues I've ever had with soundmen have been over tone and EQ. 95% of the soundmen around my area always mix bass very clickity clackity - and very bright. "Sober" by Tool vs. "Are You Gonna Go My Way" by Lenny Kravitz. With the rock band, I expect to lose that fight- but with the oldies band it drives me nuts. Despite that, over the years I've just accepted the fact regardless of what I want or think, what matters is that the bar owner is happy with the mix and that the patrons arent complaining. I've become accustomed to just running a DI before my rig and let the soundman do his thing because inevitably, he's going to do what he wants anyway. The only recourse I have in the oldies band is to pull out the P-bass with flats or my fretless, and roll off the tone.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,974
- 5
- 220,725
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Good luck getting your a** kicked by the soundman by ruining his gear:scowl:
At a show that I was venue production manager at, quite a few years ago, we delt with a guitar player who did exactly that. He thought he got away with it until he got back stage and the IA (union) crew chief, who was a pretty big guy told him he had 2 options... the first was to pay for the damage (he jumped on the grille of a nice monitor wedge then picked it up and threw it into the audience, said accidents happen) or he would find out what the other option was shortly. He didn't pay up, and the crew had an "accident" with his guitar and amp... the amp "fell" off the (4') stage onto his (very nice) guitar. Like he said, accidents happen.
IME, at least at the level I work at, the sound guys do a good job of making things sound good. I spent 30 years in the hot seat, didn't experience all that much drama or grief either (considering the thousands of shows), most bands were plenty happy with the sound and were always cool with the monitor system, which was nicer than most of their own main systems.
That is a very misunderstood phrase. Of course, different gear sounds different. Nobody denies that. But most people strive to get similar sounds in the gear no matter what they use. It's not going to sound exactly the same, but it's not going to sound out of left field, either. And make no mistake...the way you play has everything to do with how you sound as a bass player. So that's what's meant by all in the hands, not that every piece of gear sounds the same.
Hawkeye
Canuck Amateur
I'm sure the poster didn't mean to say that every piece of gear sounds the same. That wouldn't make sense. I was commenting on how some players seem to say that every tonal variation that they could ever desire is available to them in their hands and doesn't depend on the effect of the downstream electronics. They're happy to go into an amp, the mixing board, whatever. The tone is "in their hands".
I do have a bit of a different take on your statement that: "And make no mistake...the way you play has everything to do with how you sound as a bass player." I agree that it has a lot to do with how you sound, but I don't believe it has "everything" to do with the sound as you claim. Play with a pick or play with your fingers, I know that is a very big determinator as to how you are going to sound.
With an unamplified or even miked acoustic bass I can agree with the statement that the tone is in the hands. However, with an electric bass guitar, it's a different ball game. There's just so much more going on in the downstream signal chain.
In my very rough estimation I think that how you play has about 1/3 to 2/3 to do with the sound. The rest has to do with the instrument and with the amplifier. Otherwise why would we have so many different types of strings, pickups, electronics etc. available to us if they didn't have a significant influence on the sound?
It all depends what type of player you are.
Wheter you get your tone from your amp/FX or Direct.
I'm that type of player. I'm an "All DI , All the time" type of player.
The only pedal I've ever used is a tuner. ( doh! )
And I don't use a bass amp as monitor. I use Active monitors or IEM.
So in my case it's " My sound is my hand" 100% of the time.
We all work toward the same goal ; making music and trying to make it sound good.And we all work for the guys/gals paying the ticket/beer.
That's the most important part.
Some should leave their "ego" in the truck.
Another point - I do carry all my own mic's (Vocal and Bass), my own XLR's, I carry a small mic stand in my speaker case and I carry a DI with an extra 1/4" cable to hook it up (yes it is a George L's). I come complete with everything I need to hook myself up and I am self sufficient.
Hawkeye
Canuck Amateur
I agree with what you've said. Some players want to go further with their tone. There's room for both. The problem (back to the topic of this thread) is that many soundguys have the idea that all bass players will be like you. They think we just don't care what happens with the signal after it leaves the output jack. They hand you any old D.I. with the expectation that the bass player will just put up and shut up. Try that with a guitarist and await the inevitable pyrotechnics.
I don't think it has a lot (or anything for that matter) to do with ego as you indicated. It has a lot to do with finding the sound that's in your head and recreating that whenever you play. For you, that's a DI straight to the board. Great, you're the soundguys best friend.
For others it's more. There's room for both points of view.
- Status
