i hate sound guys

[JimmyM]

I'm sure the poster didn't mean to say that every piece of gear sounds the same. That wouldn't make sense. I was commenting on how some players seem to say that every tonal variation that they could ever desire is available to them in their hands and doesn't depend on the effect of the downstream electronics. They're happy to go into an amp, the mixing board, whatever. The tone is "in their hands".

I do have a bit of a different take on your statement that: "And make no mistake...the way you play has everything to do with how you sound as a bass player." I agree that it has a lot to do with how you sound, but I don't believe it has "everything" to do with the sound as you claim. Play with a pick or play with your fingers, I know that is a very big determinator as to how you are going to sound.

With an unamplified or even miked acoustic bass I can agree with the statement that the tone is in the hands. However, with an electric bass guitar, it's a different ball game. There's just so much more going on in the downstream signal chain.

In my very rough estimation I think that how you play has about 1/3 to 2/3 to do with the sound. The rest has to do with the instrument and with the amplifier. Otherwise why would we have so many different types of strings, pickups, electronics etc. available to us if they didn't have a significant influence on the sound?

I can't give the equipment that much credit. I'm the one turning it on and twisting the dials and making the "magic" happen. Besides, I've heard a lot of people use my stuff who sound nothing like me, so if the hands weren't the major force, they would sound like me.

 

[fokof]

I don't think it has a lot (or anything for that matter) to do with ego as you indicated. It has a lot to do with finding the sound that's in your head and recreating that whenever you play.

What I mean by that ;

-Soundmans should leave their ego at the door and listen to what musicians want. Even if sometimes it's stuff they are not use to. (we all learn, all the time)
-Musicians should leave their ego at the door and think a little more about the public and the well being of the whole show instead of their own little world (big amps & stuff)

iMHO

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

So it was my band's first gig and i was excited to play. I get up on stage during a short intermission for the band to get our equipment on and to let the other band get theirs off. i was borrowing a '65 fender bassman but the sound guy wouldnt let me use it because he was to lazy to mic it or something so i ended up playing straight into the PA. He kept turning me down during the songs until i had to check multiple times if my cable was still plugged into my bass or not. Has this ever happened to you? If so wat do you do about it?

I never play straight into a PA *unless* I know the soundperson well, and trust that he/she will leave it where I want it. After all, I have (and we have) to hear the bass if we're going to play well. If you don't know the soundperson, don't leave it up to them to control every bit of your sound.

Hopefully you've learned what not to do for the future. Sorry this happened to you.

 

[s_mcsleazy]

i have some advice

1. bring a eq pedel to shape your sound if you do have to d.i
2. get to know the soundman befor you soundcheck becauseif your professional they like you and you can help to understand eachother
3. just say to him when your soundchecking "can i please have a little more treble or low mid" and most times they comply

 

[MatticusMania]

when the sound man gets paid to ruin my sound. i usually end up ruining some PA gear. i usually say something through the PA about it, then if it continues, i may take a mic and throw bery hard on the floor. see how he likes that one. but i have never ran into a sound man who didnt want to mic and also use a direct line.

if i cannot ruin any gear, i try to at least ruin his day

If I were running your sound you'd get a bill from me, and I'd take your bands guitars until all my gear you broke was replaced.

 

[MatticusMania]

#1 comment of all time: "i can't hear the vocal!"

Yup, and its almost always because the band's guitard needs to be cranked to 11 to get 'his tone', then the bassist turns up to accomodate... its sad that bands don't know how to eq themselves at a reasonable level.

 

[s_mcsleazy]

Yup, and its almost always because the band's guitard needs to be cranked to 11 to get 'his tone', then the bassist turns up to accomodate... its sad that bands don't know how to eq themselves at a reasonable level.

i usually eq so i can be heard

its better than turning up

 

[PBass101]

Yup, and its almost always because the band's guitard needs to be cranked to 11 to get 'his tone', then the bassist turns up to accomodate... its sad that bands don't know how to eq themselves at a reasonable level.

The problem isn't the guitard turning his amp up, because that's how you get good sound out of a tube amp. The problem is that nine times out of ten he has too many speakers in his backline. That's why I like single speaker guitar combo amps.

No guitar player ever needs more than two 12" speakers for anything smaller than Madison Square Garden.

 

[ga_edwards]

The problem isn't the guitard turning his amp up, because that's how you get good sound out of a tube amp. The problem is that nine times out of ten he has too many speakers in his backline. That's why I like single speaker guitar combo amps.

No guitar player ever needs more than two 12" speakers for anything smaller than Madison Square Garden.

Agree 100%. Guitar tube amps need the master volume cranked to get really good overdrive (so many crank up the gain and get crap overdrive) from the power amp tubes.

But there's a lot of guitarists playing bar gigs who insist on carting around a couple of 4x12's with their 100w head. Again, big cabs, need power to make them sing. If you're playing to 1000+ people, then fine, but it's complete overkill for a small venue. A guitarist really doesn't need anymore than a 2x12 50w for the average bar or function gig, perhaps even smaller.

Hey, there's some well known guitarists that play huge venues with combos and half stacks. And god only knows how many people play through the venerable AC30 combo.

However, saying all that, with a big rig, a powersoak can help a lot. It will allow the guitarist to crank the master volume and push the power section, whilst keeping the volume more reasonable.

 

[D.A.R.K.]

No guitar player ever needs more than two 12" speakers for anything smaller than Madison Square Garden.

disagree. a 4x12 sounds nothing like a 2x12.
there's a reason they invented the power brake.
i prefer hearing guitar through 4x12 in a lot of scenarios.
i'm sure guitarists would say bass never needs more than 2x10's....
just as wrong.

 

[Mads]

Anyone else notice this is a 4 page rant with only one post from the O.P.?

I did, and I find it quite interesting that the man who is doing "my band's first gig" is hating me because of my chosen profession, without ever meeting me...

But then again, if he has chose to hate soundtech's from this date 'till come the armageddon I'd say he's chosen the wrong thing to do with his spare time...

 

[agedhorse]

I did, and I find it quite interesting that the man who is doing "my band's first gig" is hating me because of my chosen profession, without ever meeting me...

But then again, if he has chose to hate soundtech's from this date 'till come the armageddon I'd say he's chosen the wrong thing to do with his spare time...

Yeah, he won't hate the sound guy for long... because there won't be much "long" in a career as a musician with an attitude like that.

 

[deanpancho]

man
i have played live like twenty times and always the soundman is a mother****er, they don't know anything and they don't help.

 

[modulusman]

man
i have played live like twenty times and always the soundman is a mother****er, they don't know anything and they don't help.

Well some day maybe you will be in a band good enough to work with a real soundman.

 

[engedi1]

I too dread it when a guitarist shows up with his Marshall Half stack and 100 watt head for a bar that seats 75. He would get better tone with a Fender Blues Jr. 25 watt amp that he can crank. Then his overdrive will come from the tubes, and not his crappy pedals.
I can't ever see a need for those massive guitar cabs, even a 50 watt Fender twin reverb can make your ears bleed, and completely bury the bass, singer, drums, and everything else.

 

[von buck]

i was borrowing a '65 fender bassman but the sound guy wouldnt let me use it t. Has this ever happened to you? If so wat do you do about it?

I don't know if someone mentioned this, but maybe the amp wasn't right for the venue. I
A 65 Fender Bassman isn't really great to use for gigs. Sure it looks cool, but it ain't to powerfull
Andy

 

[davecanady]

I too dread it when a guitarist shows up with his Marshall Half stack and 100 watt head for a bar that seats 75. He would get better tone with a Fender Blues Jr. 25 watt amp that he can crank.

The pros (real or in attitude) show up with the right gear for the venue....AC15 vs AC30 vs 100 watt Marshall, but the average local musician hocked his left nut to get his dream rig and he is gonna play it...Period!

We had a rhythm guitar player like that who also believed that loud was more important than good. He would even tell other bands that they needed to turn up. Our vocal PA could not keep up this his rig...... He's no longer in our band.

We play in two places with house systems and sound guys. I love it.

 

[mccartneyman]

The problem isn't the guitard turning his amp up, because that's how you get good sound out of a tube amp. The problem is that nine times out of ten he has too many speakers in his backline. That's why I like single speaker guitar combo amps.

No guitar player ever needs more than two 12" speakers for anything smaller than Madison Square Garden.

With today's technology, you don't need to crank an amp to get "your sound." Try getting a guitar player to believe that, though.

 

[D.A.R.K.]

With today's technology, you don't need to crank an amp to get "your sound." Try getting a guitar player to believe that, though.

absolutely. and a pedal sounds just like an svt, why the hell would anyone use an svt?

 

[MonkeyBass]

man
i have played live like twenty times and always the soundman is a mother****er, they don't know anything and they don't help.

20 gigs... when you've really gone out in the trenches then maybe you'll find that it's not the sound guys that are the problem.

Try touring, going to a new venue every night, dealing with different stages, bad food, cranky band members, etc. Then let us know how you like the sound guys ok.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, it's just that 20 gigs is a drop in the bucket to what the real gigging world is like. So a blanket statement of "always the soundman is a mother****er" is an ignorant statement. And it just shows me that since you're not a pro, you're probably not acting like one, and thus making the soundman angry.

I've noticed, over the years, that the "green" bands out there expect a lot and tend to be dicks about it, whereas the veteran musicians are usually pretty chill and appreciate what the soundguy can do for them. I refuse to work with any musician that acts like a prick to soundguys, or anybody else for that matter.

I don't know you're particular circumstances so I could be wrong. For all I know you're a total pro and a gentleman and it just so happens you really have encountered the 20 worst soundguys in the biz.