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I know most don't like Gene Simmons.
- Thread starter Noseferatu
- Start date
That's cool, you did bring something different to the table and I appreciate it. I could go on about why I don't think of him as punk, but I don't want to spend too much time bagging on the guy or Kiss. And I'm definitely not so blinded by my dislike that I would claim he's a lousy bassist--that's just not true. I grew up in the '70s; Kiss was never my cup o'tea, though I did love Cheap Trick (another band that was briefly lumped in with punk).
That's cool. I loved Cheap Trick too, and remember them being lumped in with punk, along with Elvis Costello, and Devo.
"The Lemon Song"
"Ramble On"
"Heartbreaker"
All songs that are defined by the bassline.
Gene is a good bassist, but his lines hardly define the song: he's much more of a support player.
I like how he incorporates McCartney-like walkups into his lines.
But I don't like his lack of dynamic and big-dumb attack: every note sounds the same, he has no real note envelope, otherwise known as "feel"
Cliff also has much better tone than Gene.
Probably because he doesn't beat the c**p outta the strings like Gene tends to do.
Attention elitists.
Geddy Lee plays prog rock.
John Paul Jones played/plays blues rock.
John Entwistle played prog rock.
Jaco Pastorious played Jazz fusion.
Gene Simmons plays straight up 4 on the floor rock and roll.
He is not in a position, because of his band to be doing the flashy things that the other guys here mentioned. He plays what's needed for his band, and that's it. As it is, he and his band have influenced thousands upon thousands of people, and they've been selling out shows for 30+ years. In my book that constitutes if not a great, a stalwart at least.
And for the record, I can't stand KISS's music, but I have to give credit where it's due. Gene plays what he needs to play, when he needs to, and fills their pocket. By nearly EVERY bass player criteria, that makes some one a really good bassist.
Geddy Lee plays prog rock.
John Paul Jones played/plays blues rock.
John Entwistle played prog rock.
Jaco Pastorious played Jazz fusion.
Gene Simmons plays straight up 4 on the floor rock and roll.
He is not in a position, because of his band to be doing the flashy things that the other guys here mentioned. He plays what's needed for his band, and that's it. As it is, he and his band have influenced thousands upon thousands of people, and they've been selling out shows for 30+ years. In my book that constitutes if not a great, a stalwart at least.
And for the record, I can't stand KISS's music, but I have to give credit where it's due. Gene plays what he needs to play, when he needs to, and fills their pocket. By nearly EVERY bass player criteria, that makes some one a really good bassist.
Yeah, but go watch that episode of "Rock School" where Suzi Quattro pretty much schools Gene on how to play a simple bass line with feel and dynamics. His articulations are pretty hamfisted, even when he plays interesting notes.
KISS prides themselves on being the loudest show you'll ever see. Do you really think he spends a lot of time working with dynamics? Gene is what he is, which is the perfect bassist for KISS.
Yeah, but even beyond the dynamics you have articulations, like slides, and left hand muting.
None of which Gene really does.
Then again, Cliff Williams doesn't do those things either.
But he does get a very warm, consistent tone that still rocks, without getting ratty and having notes pop in and out the mix like you'll hear with Gene.
The whole "so and so" is a perfect bass player for "so and so" things is really getting old here. You could use that for any plyer, Pete Wentz, Sid Vicious, Bobby Dahl. Sorry if people on this forum look at bass playing as more than selling albums, playing in front of people, and playing for the song.
Besides, this whole issue has turned completely strwaman as usual. Sure, Gene can play, he is not terrrible and to any beginner bass player or someone who does not play, or the legions of Kiss homers he is great. But that was not the point.
The OP Kiss Homer stated that these fills that Simmons did were "Killer". They are not...end of story. There are probably 1000 forums on the internet where he would have had 1000 people agree with him. This unfortunately is not one of them.
All that's your opinion. Your idea of a killer fill may sound like crap to some one else, it may sound too note-y or have a crappy tone. Who are you to say which is better?
Yeah, let's get into Gene's music a little more - we are bass players, right?
You know a little lick of Gene's that I really dig is the chromatic walkup to the G he does in Strutter. It's actually moving in contrary motion to the guitar, which is I believe playing a C# note at the same time Gene drops down to the low E to start the walkup.
You hear that trick a lot in country basslines too.
Theoretically, the reason that works is that the C# is the 6th of the E.
You know a little lick of Gene's that I really dig is the chromatic walkup to the G he does in Strutter. It's actually moving in contrary motion to the guitar, which is I believe playing a C# note at the same time Gene drops down to the low E to start the walkup.
You hear that trick a lot in country basslines too.
Theoretically, the reason that works is that the C# is the 6th of the E.
Actually its the boards opinion and I would be willing to bet anything that any poll would prove that. So what are you going to do for an encore, discredit the whole forum?
I am sure to a beginner bass player those are killer fills. Anyone else just laughs at this stuff. And since this OP is notorious for being a Kiss homer and someone who starts the same topics over and over, saying the same things, I think he should be called out for it.
+1 - Gene is by far the best bass player in Kiss. He's the best bass-playing marketing genius, ever! He's a competent bassist for a one-dimensional hard rock band that happens to have made hundreds of millions of dollars and has gained legions of followers. Full credit to Gene for coming up with a band/concept that has survived for so long.
Why can't that be enough for those who love him and Kiss so much? He's not bad, he's not terrible by any stretch of the imagination. Saying that doesn't mean that anybody hates him or disses him.
But, sorry, despite his success and his fanbase, he's not one of the greatest rock bassists around, by any definition of the word.
And despite his band's success and fanbase, they're simply not in the same league as some of the bands with the bassists some here try to compare with Gene - JPJ in Led Zep, Entwistle in the Who, Geddy in Rush, Sir Paul in the Beatles.
The comparison is laughable, honestly. Those bands were monumentally creative, and had a range of musical expression FAR greater than Kiss had/has. Kiss rocks hard, and has written a few kinda' catchy tunes. Their shows are exciting, cheesy, fun, often really entertaining! Period (I've seen them more once, and a good time was had by all)
Those who bow at the altar of Gene & Kiss will never convince most of us that we ought to do so, too. But feel free to try - it's awfully entertaining to watch.
Why can't that be enough for those who love him and Kiss so much? He's not bad, he's not terrible by any stretch of the imagination. Saying that doesn't mean that anybody hates him or disses him.
But, sorry, despite his success and his fanbase, he's not one of the greatest rock bassists around, by any definition of the word.
And despite his band's success and fanbase, they're simply not in the same league as some of the bands with the bassists some here try to compare with Gene - JPJ in Led Zep, Entwistle in the Who, Geddy in Rush, Sir Paul in the Beatles.
The comparison is laughable, honestly. Those bands were monumentally creative, and had a range of musical expression FAR greater than Kiss had/has. Kiss rocks hard, and has written a few kinda' catchy tunes. Their shows are exciting, cheesy, fun, often really entertaining! Period (I've seen them more once, and a good time was had by all)
Those who bow at the altar of Gene & Kiss will never convince most of us that we ought to do so, too. But feel free to try - it's awfully entertaining to watch.
First, I'm not trying to discredit anyone, that's where we're having the disconnect. Second, just because there are a lot of opinions one way or the other does not mean the the ones going contrary are any less valid, it just means they're less common.
I'd put Gene's work in Strutter up against those guys, and I think it belongs there.
He wasn't a pentatonic only player - he loves the major scale, and his style is a lot closer to McCartney than many others.
You want to put Genes work in Strutter against the best of JPJ, Lee, and Entwhistle? That is crazy talk!
He was similar to Macca and not far from JPJ but Gene cant touch the best from Lee or Ox. No way.
I would definitely say that Strutter is one of my favorite basslines of all time. ALong with 100,000 Years, Goin Blind, and Rock And Roll All Nite.
Here's video of him playing Strutter straight up without the band.
Action starts at 2:50
And by the way, Gene's basslines DO define alot of KISS' music.
Here's video of him playing Strutter straight up without the band.
Action starts at 2:50
And by the way, Gene's basslines DO define alot of KISS' music.
In my mind, alot Gene's basslines ooze musicality.
And I admit that the fills I originally posted were not quite "killer".
And I admit that the fills I originally posted were not quite "killer".
What does that mean exactly?
His ability to impress you?
I'll say that Lee has technique far beyond Gene. The Ox to a certain extent too.
But the Ox tended to play pentatonic lines, and his attack was very similar to Genes - always "on" - hard hitting, no dynamics to speak of.
"The Real Me" has got some pretty innovative stuff going on, but to me, a lot of Entwistles lines are kind of dumb; I think he's over-rated personally.
