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I might be kicked off TB for this, but.....

Doesn't mean that they should be universally revered. Individuals like what they like.

Rivers of piss? Bet that changed his mind.
:D
I wasn't saying that at all. I was making an analogy to what alaskaleftybass said about JP with respect to his impact on bass playing. When one knows the landscape of bass playing BEFORE Jaco, it is in that context that JP's contribution can be most appreciated. He was a pioneer who substantially altered the status quo forever. So regardless of whether you LIKE his playing, which is a matter of taste, you can at least truly appreciate him for the magnitude of his game-changing impact.

So it is with the Beatles. A previous poster said he didn't get what was so great about them, either. I was merely pointing out that regardless of whether you like or appreciate their music, which is a matter of taste, at the very least they too can be appreciated for the utter revolutionary impact that they had on music when taken in context with pre-Beatles rock and roll and music in general.

The Beatles were revolutionary. So was Jaco. Never said that either should be revered. I never offered any measure of greatness as Yeti suggested. That completely misses my point. I was merely finding the point alaskaleftybass made quite analogous to the the Beatles with regard to their pioneering impact on the landscape of music.

My response to Yeti was merely to emphasize the enormity of that impact when it came to the Beatles. No other group of musicians has ever had that kind of impact on the status quo, and it will be a long time until one does again.
 
Also... OT, not that it really matters at this point, but Alphonso Johnson played on the album version track Elegant People

Jaco often included "Elegant People" in his live performances, and it was that from which I was speaking. Not trying to take anything away from Alphonso - he played on most of "Black Market", and is a phenomenal player - "Gibraltar" had a seriously hard groove.
 
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The problem with liking or not liking any musician is that your opinion is based on how you respond to the performance you see and hear. In a different context, the musician you're not into may knock you off your chair. Perhaps it's a reflection of the music and not connecting with it. There are great painters who changed their styles out of protest or social expectations (i.e. sellout) whose work was vastly different during the stages of their lives. Why aren't musicians afforded that same luxury? How many times have you heard of an innovative musician being booed off the stage for trying another new thing other than their greatest hits catalog? The public has a tendency to keep artists in a box. You're fine as long as you stick to whatever it is that made you popular in the first place, that is, until it goes out of style then you can play the "where are they now" circuit.
 
Want to reply to one thing first; saying Jaco had no groove. I'm on my cell and can't link it, but do yourself a favor and listen to Weather Report's "Barbary Coast." It is a tune in straight 4/4 that is nothing but Jaco holding down funky grooves and not just repeating the same phrase over and over. I don't think it can be denied that he had groove, and that should be "Evidence A" for the defense.

As said before, Jaco is best looked at in context at his time. In the new Jaco documentary, people like Flea, Geddy Lee, Herbie Hancock, Robert Trujillo (don't write him off as just a Metallica bassist unless you've listened to Infectious Grooves and Suicidal Tendencies; he is a monster player), etc. describe how much of an emornous influence he was to them and the bass, in general. He is best viewed as a pioneer as to expanding the limits of the instrument, much like Hendrix. There are tons of guys who are technically better than Hendrix (Vai, Van Halen, etc.), and other guys who you could argue had better blues/rock feel (Steve Ray Vaughn...wait; all of those names end in "V." It's a conspiracy!). For what he was doing, he revolutionized the instrument. Which is why many serious (well known) bassists and musicians point to him as one of the best, if not the best, ever bassist. It's akin to Louis Armstrong. Many jazz experts will tell you that he was the most important factor i the development of jazz, and if you go back as far as him and Bix Biederbecke, you will see that it is very well the case, although for many, jazz starts with Charlie Parker.

Now, as far as taste goes: entirely subjective. I don't like The Who at all. Respect Entwhistle's ability, but not my kind of music. You will never catch me listening to Rush (totally respect that whole band's skill). There's a big difference between not liking someone's music and saying they're not good (not aimed at you, OP). I don't like the Allman Brothers, the Dead, pretty much any jam band... But my tastes in music vary greatly. My "stranded on an island album" is Soundgarden's "Superunknown." I love Slayer, Misfits, Mastodon, Jeff Buckley, Alice in Chains, Gershwin, Monk (pretty much all jazz), Mozart, deBussy, Stravinsky, etc. I appreciate a wide swath of genres and bands/musicians/composers.

I think as musicians, the worst thing any of us could do is say a genre sucks, not listen to it, and deprive ourselves about learning new things. I'm not an overall fan of country, but I'll give it a spin. Not a fan of Appalachian-country whatever you'd call it, but Sixteen Horsepower is awesome. Beck is a musical genius.

These pissing matches are almost always pointless, and the sad reason for that is because almost no one wants to hear anything different than their preconceived notions. Person A makes a statement, persons B-L argue against it, M-Z defend it, and I wonder how many people actually listen to the clips provided, or go seek out that music with an open mind and say "maybe I should give it another chance?" These posts end up becoming more an echo chamber than an opportunity to learn.

One should be open to everything as a musician. That is not subjective in my opinion.

Also, I caught Felix Pastorius live last week at the 55 Bar, and yes, he is a monster player with amazing chops and great instinct. He's also a giant and a really friendly guy. I started a thread in this sub-forum about him and posted a picture of him and I outside the club. I'm almost 5'11" and he makes me look like Mini-Me. We talked about me taking a lesson or two with him, which would be awesome.

Damn... Wall of text, and pardon any grammatical mistakes/misspellings. This would have been easier on a computer.
 
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Robert Trujillo (don't write him off as just a Metallica bassist unless you've listened to Infectious Grooves and Suicidal Tendencies; he is a monster player)
Dear Mod's

Why do you let threads like this continue?......If someone was to say anything about playing clean In the effects forum, you'd step in and issue warnings or banning members.

Why is it any different with these types of threads and post's?......clearly this type of thread is open for trolling weather you like Jaco or not

Note to OP.....I might being the one getting kicked off TB now

And if I do......last thing I like to say, + 1 on Robert T.

R.I.P.
 
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Dear Mod's

Why do you let threads like this continue?......If someone was to say anything about playing clean In the effects forum, you'd step in and issue warnings or banning members.

Why is it any different with these types of threads and post's?......clearly this type of thread is open for trolling weather you like Jaco or not

Note to OP.....I might being the one getting kicked off TB now

And if I do......last thing I like to say, + 1 on Robert T.

R.I.P.
I don't see any harm in this thread. Open, clean, no bashing discussion.

+1 on Robert T.
 
I have a strange feeling that I might be kicked off talkbass today.
If you do, we we all wear this...
image.jpg
 
Dear Mod's

Why do you let threads like this continue?......If someone was to say anything about playing clean In the effects forum, you'd step in and issue warnings or banning members.

Why is it any different with these types of threads and post's?......clearly this type of thread is open for trolling weather you like Jaco or not

Note to OP.....I might being the one getting kicked off TB now

And if I do......last thing I like to say, + 1 on Robert T.

R.I.P.
The reason this thread is okay, is the way it was worded. I take the OP as saying, 'I don't understand Jaco. Please enlighten me." And I took him at face value. Some people get upset. Others have shown some things for the OP to look at and listen to. Not a reflection on the OP at all. He only asked and in a respectful and nice way. If not, I'd have not posted at all.

Open for trolling........well yes, you are absolutely correct!!:)
 
My opinion, you sound like a hipster. "If you don't like him, you don't get it man!". You can't look at it that way and be taken seriously by me. Any "examples" or "evidence" would/will just be ignored by you but...

Any of the solos he does are disjointed and have no sense of groove (and he just about solos behind many "songs" too). Just wanking for wanking's sake, not a groove, not a statement of feeling.

Your opinion about him is way different than mine. Get over it. He's just not that good that he is universally loved. Period.

Just going to ignore anything else you have to say as it's just not worth my time to be insulted by someone such as you.

I never said anything about not getting it or liking it, I have been fairly clear that it is perfectly acceptable to not enjoy Jaco (or anybody else.)

I apologize if I somehow insulted you, that was never my intention. I am just pointing out that people who pay for multiple houses with their groove obviously have it. While one might not enjoy their groove, and that's perfectly acceptable, they are just trying to stir the pot by saying one lacks it. Haters gotta hate, hate, hate.

Since your on the verge of divulging into personal attacks I will agree that we should just go our separate ways.
 
Also, Jeff Berlin probably has better chops and may have more knowledge than Jaco did, but Jaco had a lot more soul in his playing. Balls. Grit. Berlin is cerebral IMO. The only guy that can 'compete with' Jaco, in the musical sense is Gary Willis. IMO. I'll bet most of the Jaco haters don't like Willis or Berlin, either.
 
The reason this thread is okay, is the way it was worded. I take the OP as saying, 'I don't understand Jaco. Please enlighten me." And I took him at face value. Some people get upset. Others have shown some things for the OP to look at and listen to. Not a reflection on the OP at all. He only asked and in a respectful and nice way. If not, I'd have not posted at all.

Open for trolling........well yes, you are absolutely correct!!:)

Well the thread clearly knew it was going to stir the pot, hence the title. I didn't find the thread nearly as egregious until I noticed the tags, pretty troll-like if do say so.
 
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