I might be kicked off TB for this, but.....

[Brad Johnson]

Gotta have respect for the pioneers,.....Jaco, Stanley Clarke, Bobby Dall, Geddy Lee....to name a few.

That's one of the underlying problems...

No, you don't have to have respect for any of those people. Each of us takes, for better or worse, our own path. So debating someone else's taste, while extremely common, is still an odd thing to do because quite often those same people don't want THEIR tastes challenged.

 

[RHFusillo]

I think most virtuoso's suck.

As do most grammarians.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Drawing the comparisons between Egan and Jaco, I could see. Anyone saying Miller was a clone must have been freebasing.

Drug-free here.


I've heard Marcus on fretless. Jaco. Clearly Jaco. In fact I can't recall hearing him not sound like Jaco on fretless. Jaco was a huge influence on his playing.

OTOH Alphonso Johnson and Percy Jones still sound like themselves. They did back in the day too.

For some folks, as soon as they hear a fretless they consider that sounding like Jaco. Hey, that's what they hear so, cool. I consider fretless as an even better opportunity for the individual player to come through so it's not a given that you will. I'm pretty sure the majority of my fretless playing doesn't sound like him... because I'm not trying to.

 

[Hoggles]

Like others were saying.... What's with the tags the OP created (or used)? "F-Jaco" and "heroworshipisoverated".

That's great and all that you don't think a player isn't all that special...but the man is dead. Have just a tiny bit of plain old fashioned respect.

You have that much deep seeded anger towards him OP?

Happy Thanksgiving!!

 

[Brad Johnson]

I feel the same way in some aspects, probably because I heard all this praise of him before listening to him and expected way too much.

There are some pieces I enjoy, but I expected the songs to be very technically challenging to learn since so many call him the best bassist, and they turned out to be extremely easy to me.

I now believe all the praise comes from the influence he had on the bass, with creativity or skill set aside. He is a great bassist, but I was never really impressed. I do intend to see that movie coming out though.

One of the hardest things do for many is to consider something in historical context.

Athletes have surpassed Jesse Owens performances many times... so what was the big deal about the Berlin Olympics medals?

Context. Some get it, many don't.

 

[Hoggles]

The Mt. Rushmore of electric bassists goes like this:

James Jamerson
Paul McCartney
John Entwistle
Jaco Pastorious

These aren't my favorite players but I do like them. They are the best of their genres and the true groundbreakers and they changed the way we think of the electric bass.

Great list.... though you forgot Phil Lesh in there

 

[Stranger Danger]

Great list.... though you forgot Phil Lesh in there

Rushmore only has 4. If I was naming my favorites it would look like this:

Phil Lesh
Dave Schools
George Porter Jr.
Geezer Butler

 

[bucephylus]

That's one of the underlying problems...

No, you don't have to have respect for any of those people. Each of us takes, for better or worse, our own path. So debating someone else's taste, while extremely common, is still an odd thing to do because quite often those same people don't want THEIR tastes challenged.

This is exactly the case. The only posting behavior I find unacceptable on TB is when people not only begin disrespecting fellow TB'ers, but begin actually calling them names. Childish and unacceptable. People need to be respectful as participants on here, irrespective of differences in opinions.

 

[Kim Jong Funk]

Drug-free here.


I've heard Marcus on fretless. Jaco. Clearly Jaco. In fact I can't recall hearing him not sound like Jaco on fretless. Jaco was a huge influence on his playing.

OTOH Alphonso Johnson and Percy Jones still sound like themselves. They did back in the day too.

For some folks, as soon as they hear a fretless they consider that sounding like Jaco. Hey, that's what they hear so, cool. I consider fretless as an even better opportunity for the individual player to come through so it's not a given that you will. I'm pretty sure the majority of my fretless playing doesn't sound like him... because I'm not trying to.

Any specific tracks you could point to? Not at all questioning you; just interested in hearing some.

Agree with you in the fretless aspect. It's pretty much standard that when I tell people I play fretless that we segue directly into what Jaco pieces I play. I in no way try to sound like him either, and you'd have a better argument accusing me of sounding like Pino Palladino. Not that I'm trying to, but I wouldn't mind that compliment!

 

[-Asdfgh-]

When one knows the landscape of bass playing BEFORE Jaco, it is in that context that JP's contribution can be most appreciated. He was a pioneer who substantially altered the status quo forever. So regardless of whether you LIKE his playing, which is a matter of taste, you can at least truly appreciate him for the magnitude of his game-changing impact.

I'm unconvinced that it was a single person revolution, as there were several bassists that emerged at the same time that were all pushing the boundaries. It looks like a change that was already happening, and part of that is probably the evolution of technology such that outside of DB playing solo virtuosity could be heard.

The Beatles were revolutionary.

I don't think that's true either. The Beatles were born from skiffle and rock and roll, and took it further, but with a lot of covers early on, and influences that also included The Ventures (according to Harrison), the Beach Boys (according to McCartney) and Motown (according to Lennon).

And it's hard to know what the effect is on the status quo from here as we are partly basing it on who has been the winner of the long-term publicity contest. As an extreme example Jane Austen wasn't considered an important author in her own time and only became so in the 20th century. You cannot assume from Austen's current popularity that she was influential at the time. So determining the effect of The Beatles on the status quo you have to research the impact on contemporaneous records and disambiguate the other cultural trends of the period.

 

[StereoPlayer]

I'm unconvinced that it was a single person revolution, as there were several bassists that emerged at the same time that were all pushing the boundaries. It looks like a change that was already happening, and part of that is probably the evolution of technology such that outside of DB playing solo virtuosity could be heard.



I don't think that's true either. The Beatles were born from skiffle and rock and roll, and took it further, but with a lot of covers early on, and influences that also included The Ventures (according to Harrison), the Beach Boys (according to McCarnety) and Motown (according to Lennon).

With a lot more credit to George Martin that is usually given. I'm very sure he pushed them to new boundaries.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

With a lot more credit to George Martin that is usually given. I'm very sure he pushed them to new boundaries.

Yes, I'd very much agree. I can imagine the conversation

Harrison: "I listened to this great Ventures record last night"
Martin: "Let me find a copy"
...
Martin: "we can do that, or even go one better"

I get the impression that Martin was a pretty essential part of the process. One of the many 5th Beatles.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

And for the record I do like The Beatles and where they took things from their own inspiration and melding many influences, but it's relatively evolutionary. It's fairly silly to rate by revolutionary changes, but there are bands I'd rate as more revolutionary than The Beatles.

 

[delta7fred]

Does the OP choose the tags? If so, disregard my last post 110%!!!!

I think anyone can add tags, if you can see one about liver than they can (I added it)!

 

[GregT]

I think anyone can add tags, if you can see one about liver than they can (I added it)!

It is there. Thank you.

 

[DWBass]

Gotta have respect for the pioneers,.....Jaco, Stanley Clarke, Bobby Dall, Geddy Lee....to name a few.

This is true. But there were A LOT of pioneers on the bass. Everyone here respects Jaco. I just respect other bassists more.

 

[Kim Jong Funk]

And for the record I do like The Beatles and where they took things from their own inspiration and melding many influences, but it's relatively evolutionary. It's fairly silly to rate by revolutionary changes, but there are bands I'd rate as more revolutionary than The Beatles.

The issue is more along the lines on who brought a certain idiom or style to the "masses." Nirvana was "the band that destroyed glam," and was the "turning point" in a large section of popular music. We can look at the SubPop catalog and discuss which bands were the true originators of that style (Cobain would have said the Pixies were his main influence), but it was Nirvana that brought it to the mainstream.

We can list all of the bands that the Beatles drew from, the guitarists who influenced Hendrix, etc., but all great musicians have their influences, and perhaps they happen to be the lucky ones who define an instrument or style at a certain time, but that doesn't take away from the specific voices they brought to the table.

We can argue who deserves credit for what and who did what first, but there are certain figureheads who get the recognition and usually deserve it. In Jaco's case, I wouldn't say it is undeserved. There are too many talented and highly respected musicians who have put Jaco on a pedestal of immortality to ignore. Funny enough, Bootsy was mentioned before as one of the originators of funk and a true icon (which he most certainly is), but in the new Jaco documentary he says "Bass playing didn't exist until he happened." Those are strong words from a bass icon.

 

[DWBass]

Also, Jeff Berlin probably has better chops and may have more knowledge than Jaco did, but Jaco had a lot more soul in his playing. Balls. Grit. Berlin is cerebral IMO. The only guy that can 'compete with' Jaco, in the musical sense is Gary Willis. IMO. I'll bet most of the Jaco haters don't like Willis or Berlin, either.

I like Willis. His playing is different than Jaco's though.

 

[Kim Jong Funk]

I like Willis. His playing is different than Jaco's though.

Very different. As I said before, not a fan of his music, but as a bassist, he's phenomenal.

 

[Altitude]

Any specific tracks you could point to? Not at all questioning you; just interested in hearing some.

Agree with you in the fretless aspect. It's pretty much standard that when I tell people I play fretless that we segue directly into what Jaco pieces I play. I in no way try to sound like him either, and you'd have a better argument accusing me of sounding like Pino Palladino. Not that I'm trying to, but I wouldn't mind that compliment!

I'll agree that Marcus is heavily Jaco-influenced, in part because he says he is. He's also written a few Jacoesque tunes like Invalid Link Removed on the same-named album, he covered "Teen Town", and he wrote "Invalid Link Removed" for Miles about 30 years ago. Never mind the bass on that one and listen to the melody - it sounds _exactly_ like something Jaco would have written.

There would be a lot of other examples, but I have go baste the turkey.