I might be kicked off TB for this, but.....

[Ampig]

Jaco was a hero of the bass. Ignore him, dislike him whatever. That wont change.
I was there in the mid 70s when he hit the scene. It eas like a ballbat to the head, He turned everyone on their ear. Even guitards eere going -***? He was a game changer. Respect that.

 

[David Jayne]

I think most of the anti-Jaco folks here do understand and respect that he was and still is important and influential. They just don't like his music.
His music. That's key. Think about it.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think anyone has said "Oh hell yeah the songs are great but they'd be SO much better with someone else on bass."
Well. I of course feel they're missing out on something truly great but you like what you like. I don't like prog or death metal. I don't like shredder guitarists' albums or even most bass players' solo efforts because usually the songs aren't very good, IMO. I often find the songs to be boring and uninspired. Maybe I don't 'get it.' Don't like Jaco? Maybe you don't 'get it.' Or maybe you do but he's just not your thing. Guess what? No biggie. Our world continues to turn and orbit the sun regardless. Fortunately there is room for all of us. : )

 

[Shortie]

I'm doing a very bad imitation on the bass on the bass of Jerry Jemmott, Bernard Odum, Jimmy Fielder, Jimmy Blanton, Igor Stravinsky, Jimi Hendrix, John Coltrane, James Brown, Charlie Parker...

Yeah well - what he didn't say was that he was "imitating them" all at the same time. He could get all of them together into one bar of music...

BTW, how many bass players do you know that imitate Stravinsky?

 

[David Jayne]

Yeah well - what he didn't say was that he was "imitating them" all at the same time. He could get all of them together into one bar of music...

BTW, how many bass players do you know that imitate Stravinsky?

You do know that I really like Jaco a lot? My biggest influence. My favorite electric bassist by far. You might have mis-read the intent of my posting. I agree with what Anthony Jackson said. I also agree with what Jaco said. He undersold it there but he had an absolutely huge body of music knowledge. It helped him to create a whole new way of playing bass and creating new music, the likes of which we've not heard since. And I love it, all of it.

 

[stacker]

i called the bassist that people here rave about lame

lame is not an insult you rinser.

Define: Lame

• (of something intended to be entertaining) uninspiring and dull.
  "I found the programme pretty lame and not very informative"

that's my personal opinion of his playing. go be pissy elsewhere.

Rinser - not heard that term for a very graphic sexual act for a lonnnggg time. U upset, bro??

 

[stacker]

Okay, now you'll have to define rinser for those that don't speak Strine.

Not heard that for years. Wonder if the Strine version is the same as the Scots one!!

 

[anavar]

Rinser - not heard that term for a very graphic sexual act for a lonnnggg time. U upset, bro??

Not heard that for years. Wonder if the Strine version is the same as the Scots one!!

nah dude, never mad aye man, happy as a yorkie with a gut full'a piss cobba!

but seriously

i understand colloquialisms differ in meaning from place to place. I guess the Australian meaning is very mild by comparison to others. oh well, you learn these thing, don't ya.

The Australian term is someone who is just annoying and generally a bit soft and unable to have fun.

a bush budgie may suffice as a term (meaning a fly that bothers everyone)
or a cats breakfast (throw up, also unappealing an generally a downer in social situations)

 

[stacker]

nah dude, never mad aye man, happy as a yorkie with a gut full'a piss cobba!


a bush budgie may suffice as a term (meaning a fly that bothers everyone)
or a cats breakfast (throw up, also unappealing an generally a downer in social situations)

'Layin low like a Bilby' was one I remember when over there!

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Right! Hard to know their impact. Over half a billion albums sold in less than ten years. Lots of bands before them that were close I'm sure. Lots of bands before them with 20 number one songs in ten years as well. Or over any number of years for that matter. And tons since for sure. First rock band playing stadium shows. Yeah, hard to say if they had any impact at all. My bad.

Justin Bieber has sold lots of records too, as did Duran Duran, Weather Report sold fewer, so it's hard to necessarily equate sales to any effect on the direction music took. Pop music wasn't sufficiently popular prior to The Beatles to make stadium shows a requirement nor was a PA capable of doing it (and arguably it wasn't when The Beatles did it). I suspect if The Beatles hadn't done it first The Rolling Stones would have done. So I think it is hard to separate the actual events as they happened from what would have happened anyway. Sometimes ideas are just ideas whose time has come, such as two (and claims for a third) designs of lightbulbs emerging at the same time.

The long-lasting cultural impact of The Beatles and their position in the cultural firmament is another matter, but that seems to me to be a function of both impact on music multiplied by popularity. There were bands that were musically influential on musicians of the period who didn't achieve the same level of popularity that aren't so remembered. Examples would be those who originally played on the musical back catalogue that British Invasion bands plundered.

 

[Shortie]

You might have mis-read the intent of my posting.

No. I was expanding on it. What I meant was in praise.

Jaco was one of the greatest musicians we have ever had the privilege to witness - maybe the greatest. Whether or not people "like him" is irrelevant. The guy was a flat-out genius, in the truest sense. But he did a lot of stuff I don't particularly "like" and about the only influence he's ever had on me is that I messed around a bit with some more sounds on a J bass (Not Jaco sounds.) He's an inspiration to me, but not an influence.

There are a lot of people who don't "like" or even appreciate Thelonious Monk either - they think he's some sort of crazy ******** hack. What does that mean? Nothing.

 

[Shortie]

So determining the effect of The Beatles on the status quo you have to research the impact on contemporaneous records and disambiguate the other cultural trends of the period.

No. Just watch the Ed Sullivan, Hollywood Bowl, and Shea Stadium clips, and read their entry in Wikipedia. That's all the "research" that's necessary, if you weren't around at the time. I lived through the Beatles era and I was already playing music. I don't need to do any research at all: The Beatles were a sweeping cultural phenomenon, not just a rock band. The '60s began with the Beatles - everything followed from them.

There's also an argument to be made that the Beatles were first "rock band" in the modern sense - at least the first rock band to achieve great popularity. Generally you had vocalists and back-up bands who were decidedly in the background. I remember at the time being struck at how cool it was that they were out there up front, singing and playing their own music on their own instruments. The instruments and the music itself were all part of it - they were not just singers singing songs - they were a A BAND - and an amazingly tight and professional one to boot. (The Beach Boys are in that conversation, but it's questionable how much of their music they actually played.)

BTW, there is NO 'contemporaneous' rock or pop music that is not somehow derived from the Beatles music.

You're like someone who wonders about the "impact of WW II" - was it really so important? Never mind that the entire world we live in today is the result of WW II...

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Over half a billion albums sold in less than ten years. Lots of bands before them that were close I'm sure. Lots of bands before them with 20 number one songs in ten years as well. Or over any number of years for that matter. And tons since for sure. First rock band playing stadium shows. Yeah, hard to say if they had any impact at all. My bad.

25 has done the seemingly impossible:"Adele's 25 has now officially sold just over 3 million copies in the U.S., according to Nielsen Music."
Adele's '25' Sales Grow to Over 3 Million in U.S.


I've tried to listen to Adele's "Hello" but it sounded so mediocre to me that I could not finish the whole song.

 

[David Jayne]

No. I was expanding on it. What I meant was in praise.

We cool.

 

[Altitude]

I think most of the anti-Jaco folks here do understand and respect that he was and still is important and influential. They just don't like his music.
His music. That's key. Think about it.
Correct me if I'm wrong but no one has said "Oh hell yeah the songs are great but they'd be SO much better with someone else on bass."
Well. I of course feel they're missing out on something truly great but you like what you like. I don't like prog or death metal. I don't like shredder guitarists. Because usually the songs aren't very good. Boring songs IMO. Maybe I don't 'get it.' Don't like Jaco? Maybe you don't 'get it.' Maybe you do and he's just not your thing. Guess what? No biggie. Our world continues to turn and orbit the sun regardless. Fortunately there is room for all of us. : )

That's a very good post and I agree with it up to a point. I'll venture that a person has to possess a certain understanding of jazz in order to actually hear what Jaco was doing. While it's 100% OK for a person NOT to possess that understanding, it may keep them from "getting it."

Dirty, easy example - it would be easy for an untrained ear to listen to the "Donna Lee" cover on his self-titled album and hear a guy with good chops noodling on a fretless bass. Because there might be a guy in the next dorm room doing the same thing. It takes a different ear to hear that Jaco is nailing the changes of that tune all the way through, and more or less is doing with it exactly what Bird did with it, except doing it on a bass which was pretty mind-blowing at that moment in 1976 (ish).

So there's a little knowledge of jazz, a little context of what was happening for bass in the mid 70s, and the desire and ability to recognize the song "Donna Lee" and impose the changes in your head on top of what Jaco was playing unaccompanied on that track other than percussion. All those things are kind of necessary in order to understand what was happening there. Many, many people don't care at that level, and those people might not understand or appreciate Jaco as much as those who do. No crime committed.

Rick Suchow did a great thing a while back - he managed to impose Jaco's recording of Donna Lee on top of the Charlie Parker recording. If you have any interest whatsoever in further understanding what Jaco did with that tune, do yourself the favor of checking out this page and listening to the MP3 Rick put up for us.

 

[disco-al]

it's all good ..i myself find Jaco and all those jazz fusion guys boring and esoteric. Herbie Hancock said one of the reasons he went into funk was, he would go to parties and they would play everybody else's record but his. trust me i really, really tried to like Stanley Clarke, Wooten and all that Bitches Brew sh*+... i just don't get it. they have all done some beautiful things, (and i have bought their records) but only musicians are moved by that sh*+. we can go back 60 years, the street guys have mopped the floor with everybody that went to Berklee and Juliard. i had more fun listening to Run Dmc and To $hort cause they don't overstate the obvious. we had Madonna, Gladys Knight, and the O'jays come here. and i wasn't listening for chops. and i had a great time. sad thing Jaco was about entertainment. he was pushed to excel, when he was already there.

 

[One Drop]

it's all good ..i myself find Jaco and all those jazz fusion guys boring and esoteric. Herbie Hancock said one of the reasons he went into funk was, he would go to parties and they would play everybody else's record but his. trust me i really, really tried to like Stanley Clarke, Wooten and all that Bitches Brew sh*+... i just don't get it. they have all done some beautiful things, (and i have bought their records) but only musicians are moved by that sh*+. we can go back 60 years, the street guys have mopped the floor with everybody that went to Berklee and Juliard. i had more fun listening to Run Dmc and To $hort cause they don't overstate the obvious. we had Madonna, Gladys Knight, and the O'jays come here. and i wasn't listening for chops. and i had a great time. sad thing Jaco was about entertainment. he was pushed to excel, when he was already there.

Just not true, a lot of non musos have traditionally enjoyed and listened to Jazz through its various incarnations.

Because it doesn't interest you doesn't mean that's universally shared.

 

[DWBass]

I don't think one has to understand jazz to get Jaco. If one knows and understands music, they can get what he did. I studied jazz and classical music and can play both. I prefer listening to and playing funk, r&b and dance music. I think a lot of these posts here are unnecessary. Because we don't like Jaco doesn't mean we don't get Jaco and some of these posts suggest we're dolts for actually not liking Jaco. I wish you guys would stop that. Bottom line is....Jaco was not the only revolutionary bassist of his time. Lamonte Johnson was doing things on fretless bass in the r&b genre that was unheard of before. Nate Phillips was doing things on funk bass never heard before and unmatched since. That was way more impactful to me. We all have our own musical tastes so can we all RESPECT that?!?!

I also respect Anthony Jackson immensely but I don't think he listens to as much music as we do to deem the revolution in bass stops at Jaco. Again, I respect Jaco and his accomplishments greatly but for me, he was not the be all end all.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I find it is lacking groove with a very undesirable tone.

If you think that Jaco is lacking "GROOVE", we probably have a COMPLETELY different understanding about GROOVE.





About that, so called, "a very undesirable tone", don't forget that sound was recorded more than 30, even 40 years ago.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Any specific tracks you could point to? Not at all questioning you; just interested in hearing some.

Agree with you in the fretless aspect. It's pretty much standard that when I tell people I play fretless that we segue directly into what Jaco pieces I play. I in no way try to sound like him either, and you'd have a better argument accusing me of sounding like Pino Palladino. Not that I'm trying to, but I wouldn't mind that compliment!

Maybe a Marcus fan could point some out. Not that I'm not a fan of his work, I don't know the names of most his songs off the top of my head. I saw him play fretless live a couple of times... nice. My personal stance is playing fretless like fretted unless I want something that requires a fretless to do. Like intervals that are microtonally off (usually for adding tension), sliding harmonics down in pitch, etc. so I end up doing gigs where folks might not expect a fretless and even better, don't really notice that I'm playing one because they don't have to immediately go for the Dramamine.

Pino's a great example of someone influenced by Jaco who ended up with his own sound. Muscular, less "notey", which allows things to stand out more in the arrangement vs. what can seem like a constant barrage of notes. Then again, we all like what we like.

I like Jaco and he's not my favorite bassist. I have no problem with anyone else not concurring with that.

 

[Son of Wobble]

I've tried to listen to Adele's "Hello" but it sounded so mediocre to me that I could not finish the whole song.

Don't want to talk to Adele? No problem, there's another call for you on line three.