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I might be kicked off TB for this, but.....
- Thread starter chubfarm2001
- Start date
Jaco`s story is tragic. I sense that some of the people close to him are haunted with regrets. Many tried but what could they do? So very sad.
Lol, I was trying to be funny and I got 2 serious responses, I listed Bobby Dall in there....Google him if you need to.
Was just trying to be funny, and for the record, I respect any artist who has the courage to be who they are, and play what comes from the heart in front of other people, if I like it or not.That's one of the underlying problems...
No, you don't have to have respect for any of those people. Each of us takes, for better or worse, our own path. So debating someone else's taste, while extremely common, is still an odd thing to do because quite often those same people don't want THEIR tastes challenged.
Another interesting article about Jaco:
"This article remembers Jaco because his was a gift that deserves regular accolades. Having become accustomed to his recordings, it might be easy to take his talent for granted. But it must be said and said often: Jaco Pastorius possessed a musical gift like no other. Ever..."
Jazz Columns: Four Nights with Jaco Pastorius - By Tom Wilmeth — Jazz Articles
P.S. Anybody is allowed to disagree with the article and the author's opinion.
Six Bass Players Discuss Jaco Pastorius
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"Ask any bass player to name his top 10 bassists and you'll find that Jaco Pastorius almost always features in the top three. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion but whether devotees or not all players agree that Jaco was unique, with an extraordinary ability to make his basslines fluid and significant no matter what he was playing or who he was playing for..."
Bass Legends: Jaco Pastorius | MusicRadar
"This article remembers Jaco because his was a gift that deserves regular accolades. Having become accustomed to his recordings, it might be easy to take his talent for granted. But it must be said and said often: Jaco Pastorius possessed a musical gift like no other. Ever..."
Jazz Columns: Four Nights with Jaco Pastorius - By Tom Wilmeth — Jazz Articles
P.S. Anybody is allowed to disagree with the article and the author's opinion.
Six Bass Players Discuss Jaco Pastorius
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"Ask any bass player to name his top 10 bassists and you'll find that Jaco Pastorius almost always features in the top three. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion but whether devotees or not all players agree that Jaco was unique, with an extraordinary ability to make his basslines fluid and significant no matter what he was playing or who he was playing for..."
Bass Legends: Jaco Pastorius | MusicRadar
"...I've been listening to a lot of Jaco Pastorius recently and I can really see where he's coming from..."
From "JOHN TAYLOR review – 'The Pleasure groove' – Life and death in Duran Duran"
:: Welcome to the ANTHONY REYNOLDS :: Official WebSite ::
One other important Jaco fact: Down Beat magazine, started in 1932, is the most respected jazz publication and started a reader's hall of fame in 1952. In 1961, they also started a critic's hall of fame; meaning two artists per year are inducted since 1961. Since the beginning of the hall of fame, only seven bassists have ever been inducted, and only one electric player has even been inducted, which you can figure out. That carries A LOT of weight.
Hmmm........I'm willing to bet they missed a whole lot of bassists.
I've noticed another interesting point. I've met quite a few bassists who were not interested in Jaco's music. They had different bass players as their idols, but...
THEIR IDOLS usually had Jaco as their idol or a Musician who influenced them tremendously.
P.S. I have NOTHING against ANY musicians/bass players behind their computers/mobile devices BRAVELY "denouncing" Jaco as a bass player, composer. Nowadays, anybody could be a TV, social media star, etc...
Jaco
That is of course subjective, like any Hall of Fame list, but there are only two spots per year, and it includes jazz musicians on any instrument. If you look at the complete list, I'd say it's certainly fair, and that there are no musicians on there who shouldn't be. And unlike many music magazines, Down Beat is the real deal. They don't play into politics, social trends, etc. It's simply musicianship and what people have brought to jazz. Unlike when popular magazines like Rolling Stone put out their lists of the best bassists of all time, and I want to either laugh hysterically or put my fist through my computer screen.
This is where some people unfairly and incorrectly will try to paint Jaco as either a master or mediocre bassist of every type of bass playing. He played funk music, but he wasn't a funk bassist. Comparing him to Bootsy as a funk bassist isn't an apples to apples comparison, as Jaco, although he grew up playing funk and R&B, was a jazz bassist. That's why his and Weather Report's compositions are in the Real Books. He played solid in almost any genre he wanted, but first and foremost, he was a jazz bassist and brilliant arranger and composer, my examples (there are tons, but I'm choosing two) of these skills would be Three Views of a Secret and Liberty City. Not only are the compositions great, but his arrangements for big band on those tunes is fantastic. His abilities as an arranger are almost always overlooked, and he was an extremely gifted one.
He was probably the most unique player in that he would play almost any style and still sound good. Ron Carter is a master upright jazz player, but I don't see him as a master of throwing down the funk, just as I wouldn't expect to hear Anthony Jackson blowing over Giant Steps or Victor Wooten killing it on Black Orpheus. Not saying that none of them have the ability to play those, but they pretty much stayed/stay in their genres, respectively.
I think most people familiar with Jaco believe, and I think rightly so, that he is a jazz bassist first and foremost.
well maybe one of you genuises that don't 'get' JP will do something remotely approaching innovation. there has been such an emense dumbing down across the whole society that most of you wouldn't even hear the changes to many of the compositions. So, just keep doing what you're doing if it works for you.
I lived through those times and even knew JP. It was exciting as we went to work, 6 nights/week (yep thats right), and always tried to be better every night - we were intense.
I'm extremely open minded so when one of you breaks through the noise make sure to post. I've been waiting.
I lived through those times and even knew JP. It was exciting as we went to work, 6 nights/week (yep thats right), and always tried to be better every night - we were intense.
I'm extremely open minded so when one of you breaks through the noise make sure to post. I've been waiting.
That still isn't a requirement to have an opinion. and to say it's due to a dumbing down completely misses the point IMO.
I've come to the conclusion that many don't even realize how over the top their worship of Jaco can be. Or how much that turns people off. Yet they consider others tone deaf to their reality.
Why is it that people can't simply be happy liking what they like? What propels this need for everyone else to buy in... or be insulted?
I dug Jaco but he definitely didn't blow my skirt up as high as some of you experienced. Don't get me wrong, I was very impressed with the out of the box things he did on his debut album but I'd already been heavily steeped in mid-70's Jazz Fusion so I was familiar with bass beyond a I-IV-V. So it wasn't because I couldn't understand what he was doing and it wasn't because I haven't heard pretty much everything that's available. Compositions like "Come on come over" harken back to his CC Riders days (yes, I heard him in that context as a contemporary). That was basic Chitlin' Circuit bass work... nothing wrong with it but when Jaco did it some folks acted like he reinvented the wheel. As blasphemous as it may seem, I also heard the bassists who inspired that side of him and it could be argued that they did it better with more variety. Jaco even alluded to that. Like most bassists, Jaco could fall back on signature licks. When it comes to relentless sixteenth note R&B I still lean towards Rocco Prestia. Crazy, huh?
I liked his big band arrangements, his works with harmonics were groundbreaking, his use of a fretless was far from the first that I heard but apparently it was for others. Many people think he invented it which is just ignorant. And ignorance of other fretless players also seems to propel the idea that he was the only one of merit out there. I personally dig a couple of old school guys more on the fretless tip and neither of them sounded like Jaco.
I remember back in the bulletin board days when a highly revered bassist adamantly declared that EVERYONE who played fretless did it because of Jaco and if you didn't admit it you were simply a liar. He also thought that Jaco had done everything that could be done with a fretless and there was no point in playing it after him. I still think that both of those ideas are ridiculous but he didn't so... cool.
So we're at the part of the thread where the recitations of Jaco's prowess are running hot and heavy and people are told they should at least respect him, etc. People don't have to do anything they don't want to, that's entirely on them. People don't have to like Jazz... or any other music form for that matter other than what they like. I feel that a lot of this stems from people who want to play like Jaco. That's cool... while I can play lots of his work I'm not one of them and I'd imagine a large number of folks fit into my category. His playing has influenced mine and so have dozens of other bassists in many styles. I appreciate what he did but I'm satisfied with my personal journey so far. Just try to understand that people have different tastes and focuses and just be happy you've found something or someone you dig instead of trying to force-feed it to the ignorant masses. It gets to the point where it brings Joe Piscopo's character to mind:
"I'm from Jersey! Are you from Jersey?! What exit?"
It's okay if you're not.
Again, this is not arguing that anyone who loves Jaco shouldn't... why can't people be allowed not to? Will that time ever come?
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All possibly true... but in the context of HIS band (Pleasure), my money's on Nathaniel Phillips being the much better fit. And he played his butt off. Around the same time Jaco was around. So was Jaco deeper at doing what Phillips did? I don't think so. Could he have been a better fit for Tower of Power? I seriously doubt it. This takes nothing away from Jaco, hell... I have skills but that doesn't mean I could do a Sonic Youth gig better than their lineup... because skill level is only part of it. Some folks never figure that out. Sometimes the seemingly "simpler" stuff isn't the easiest thing to come up with. Sometimes folks cram in notes that aren't really necessary.
It has been said that Jaco was good in most styles. My problem with that is I didn't hear him playing the majority of styles that are out there. sophisticated funk like Pleasure? Can't recall hearing that. Country? Bluegrass? And so on. I heard him play his brand of R&B, some Classical vibes, some Hendrix inspired Rock, Big Band, traditional Jazz in addition to WR's vibe. What else? This is not a slight, I'm wondering what other music people heard him do that would lead them to proclaim his abilities in most genres. The problem with that is that many genres require different disciplines and just having chops doesn't equal success in that genre. I've played with people who thought that and it's usually pretty painful.
I have no idea what he'd be doing now, not really worth guessing about IMO. I know what he recorded or played live and that's what most of us have to go on.
Lamont Johnson was doing this stuff on fretless in funk and R&B in the mid-1970's. But most people are unfamiliar with him.
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While we're on the subject, here's a review of the Jaco documentary from this morning's NY Times:
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DiabolusInMusic
Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism
Thankfully some of the offensive tags were removed yet "f-Jaco" remains...
Are we just allowed to add any tag we want without repercussions? I would say that tag is tantamount to trolling and that kind of behaviour should be admonished.
Also, sorry if I caused any confusion earlier OP. I edited my post to reflect that anybody can add tags.
I think we are getting distracted. I'm still looking for youtube videos where Gary Willis, or Marcus Miller, or Richard Bona, etc... are playing Country.
I've already expressed my humble opinion about Lamont Johnson in my comment #396.
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