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I might be kicked off TB for this, but.....

#421
Whousedtoplay said:
I think we are getting distracted. I'm still looking for youtube videos where Gary Willis, or Marcus Miller, or Richard Bona, etc... are playing Country.
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Not really... unless someone said they could play most styles. I didn't. What you're saying is a distraction.

We were talking about Jaco and I've seen people assume that his skill covers more ground than evidenced. I've seen the same said about other bassists and IRL watching a fusion drummer struggle with a 4/4 R&B tune it really brought home that skill doesn't transcend feel and if you don't have the feel for a particular genre the results can be up in the air. I also think that's a component in why some think he should be universally respected/revered. Which I think is on topic.
:)

I've already expressed my humble opinion about Lamont Johnson in my comment #396.
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And I was pointing out that Lamont Johnson was doing what he was doing on fretless prior to Jaco inventing it. In the likely case that some didn't know that. Not disagreeing with you.
 
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#422
pnchad said:
well maybe one of you genuises that don't 'get' JP will do something remotely approaching innovation. there has been such an emense dumbing down across the whole society that most of you wouldn't even hear the changes to many of the compositions. So, just keep doing what you're doing if it works for you.

I lived through those times and even knew JP. It was exciting as we went to work, 6 nights/week (yep thats right), and always tried to be better every night - we were intense.

I'm extremely open minded so when one of you breaks through the noise make sure to post. I've been waiting.
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whoa whoa whoa......dude! where did this come from? this is totally unwarranted! i don't know what you're reading into but no one ever denounced Jaco or downplayed his contribution to bass and music in general. He is highly respected by many, including me. Just because I'm not into the guy doesn't mean I don't respect him. Come on now, this was not cool, dude! What is wrong with some of y'all? I swear, someone has a difference of opinion and y'all go frikkin' nuts! smdh!
 
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#423
DWBass said:
whoa whoa whoa......dude! where did this come from? this is totally unwarranted! i don't know what you're reading into but no one ever denounced Jaco or downplayed his contribution to bass and music in general. He is highly respected by many, including me. Just because I'm not into the guy doesn't mean I don't respect him. Come on now, this was not cool, dude! What is wrong with some of y'all? I swear, someone has a difference of opinion and y'all go frikkin' nuts! smdh!
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No insult intended for those with respect but there are a considerable number of younger players who have NEVER been exposed to anything deeper than a 7th chord or 8 bar form. It's just true w exceptions of course. I've tried to work with some good younger players who cannot hear a 32 bar form because they've NEVER heard it unless in an elevator.

Don't like what you don't like. I could care less but... I took music appreciation in HS - an elective for easy grade. Did I LIKE all the different musics? No but I learned to 'appreciate' that which I didnt understand, not hate it.
 
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#424
As I write this NPR is doing a review of the music. Get the DVD to support the family. Then learn a few of his tunes - you're way.

Remember - when Weather Report hired JP they went from 300 seat clubs to 20,000 seat arenas. When has a bassist ever done THAT?

I bet, if I could produce a JP live hologram show, it would sell out big venues in Asia and Europe. Murca not so much. Virtuosity is appreciated much more elsewhere.
 
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#425
pnchad said:
No insult intended for those with respect but there are a considerable number of younger players who have NEVER been exposed to anything deeper than a 7th chord or 8 bar form. It's just true w exceptions of course. I've tried to work with some good younger players who cannot hear a 32 bar form because they've NEVER heard it unless in an elevator.

Don't like what you don't like. I could care less but... I took music appreciation in HS - an elective for easy grade. Did I LIKE all the different musics? No but I learned to 'appreciate' that which I didnt understand, not hate it.
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If you take a look at the post in question you clearly insulted certain musicians who don't line up with your position. I seriously couldn't imagine writing what you wrote without the intent to be dismissive and insulting. For example, did you call people geniuses as anything other than an insult?

Fans can go off the deep end and apparently not even realize it. If the bar for having an opinion on Jaco is having a body of work akin to his this would've been a much quieter thread.
:)

As such, it's a pretty ridiculous requirement to lay out as part on any discussion like this. Remember, some critics don't play an instrument, swing a bat, play a role, etc. That doesn't invalidate informed opinions.
 
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#426
pnchad said:
As I write this NPR is doing a review of the music. Get the DVD to support the family. Then learn a few of his tunes - you're way.

Remember - when Weather Report hired JP they went from 300 seat clubs to 20,000 seat arenas. When has a bassist ever done THAT?

I bet, if I could produce a JP live hologram show, it would sell out big venues in Asia and Europe. Murca not so much. Virtuosity is appreciated much more elsewhere.
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You probably meant Jazz bassist and I recall Return to Forever not being limited to 300 seaters. And if you go with your question as stated the list is a mile long.

This thread is schizophrenic with the popularity bar. Extremely popular artists are roundly dismissed while favorites are held in esteem because of theirs. Can't really have it both ways without looking sketchy.

There are all sorts of reasons why Jazz is less popular here than elsewhere and most aren't very flattering to the US. BTW there are lots of virtuosos who never make the limelight. Fame is a crapshoot.
 
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#429
Brad Johnson said:
As such, it's a pretty ridiculous requirement to lay out as part on any discussion like this. Remember, some critics don't play an instrument, swing a bat, play a role, etc. That doesn't invalidate informed opinions.
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This is very true. I don't play golf or follow it, but if you know the basics of it, you'll see that every professional has a caddy, and it is one that they stick with, who gives them advice on what club to use, how to approach a shot, etc. And none of them were professional players. Look at some of the best coaches in sports, and you will see that although they may have played the game, most were not great players, even if they played professionally at one point. Having thorough knowledge of a subject doesn't necessitate being a master of playing the sport, instrument, etc. and vice versa.

This is why I gave Down Beat such high praise. It's critics are not unknowledgable hacks. Roger Ebert was a pretty bad film director, but it didn't stop him from being the go-to film reviewer, who remained as unbiased in his opinions as possible, even with directors and actors he liked. The same goes for Down Beat. And before you make any judgments on Down Beat critics or question their knowledge, please read some of their reviews and become familiar with the publication, especially if you are a jazz fan in general.

Brad Johnson has made some very salient points in this thread, and I hope that you all are paying attention. As a disclosure, Brad in no way financially supports my opinions, and in no way have I formally endorsed him in any way except for his knowledge of certain music stores in Maryland. ;)
 
#430
One Drop said:
Just not true, a lot of non musos have traditionally enjoyed and listened to Jazz through its various incarnations.

Because it doesn't interest you doesn't mean that's universally shared.
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It did interest me!! because so many musicians spoke so highly of him when i was starting out. that was the consensus. and he said and went by "Jaco The Greatest Bass Player In The World" i heard how good he was, there were so many ppl that came up with more exciting things than he did.
 
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#431
I'm pretty familiar with Down Beat magazine. I personally knew one of the music critic writers who exposed me to a lot of contemporary jazz artists back in the mid 80's. I agree they have the more serious of music critics but still, what they write is their opinion albeit an educated one. I personally listen to a lot of different types of music and consider myself pretty damn educated on jazz, blues, r&b, funk and pop music. I have played it all. Did a gig last night playing ethnic Korean music so I think I'm pretty versatile and knowledgeable when it comes to music. I like Jaco and respect his contributions. Don't love him though. I get the hype. I like other bassists more. I don't think it's just young folks who dismiss things they don't understand. There's some pretty crotchety older TB members and non members who dismiss anything other than than the music styles they listen to. How many anti-slap members and threads have we had here? Like who you like and let others have their opinions.
 
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#432
I agree wholeheartedly. I believe only that Jaco deserves a great deal of respect for his playing and contribution to music. As far as liking him, to each his own. Musical taste is totally subjective. I can't listen to music by Adam Levine or Ariana Grande, or most top 40 now, but it's a genre of music, people like it, and I don't fault them for it.

As I stated in an earlier post, I don't like Rush or The Who (and I listen mostly to rock), but I certainly respect their musicianship; not just Geddy or Entwhistle, but both groups.

As far as the "like who you like" point, we are on exactly the same page. I think it's natural for people to often pigeonhole themselves into the music they grew up with in their formative years, but is unfortunate that many people won't broaden their horizons to other forms of music. It's especially more sad when it is musicians who we are talking about. I've never listened to ethnic Korean music, but I'm sure that listening to it could only help me make me a better, more well-rounded musician than not. Hell, I've learned a lot of cool music ideas from Hebrew prayer melodies and some Muslim Nasheeds.
 
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#435
Thank you for posting that above. Well done.

Jaco's style and abilities continue to be praised and panned long after his death. I think that alone speaks to what level he played at. Love him or hate him, he pushed some musical boundaries during his lifetime. I think it's good people are still discussing it.

Personally, his solo album doesn't really move me. His performance on Hejira, otoh, I have always found to be brilliant and creative. "Greatest bassist ever", I"m not sure about that, but "light years ahead of me and most guys I know" I'll cop to any day.
 
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#436
Just got the Legendary Live recordings 1978-1981 - previously unreleased stuff - wish I could post some but...

If you get a chance there are some stunning performances in there - some better than the studio versions
 
#437
pnchad said:
Just got the Legendary Live recordings 1978-1981 - previously unreleased stuff - wish I could post some but...

If you get a chance there are some stunning performances in there - some better than the studio versions
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Yeah, I've had them in rotation for the last week, great stuff. Food for thought: if Jaco died in a car crash in his late 20's and didn't mentally fall apart and the only thing we had to judge him on was the work he did then and not the subpar youtube videos people like to point to, this would be a different thread. IMHO
 
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#438
jerry said:
Yeah, I've had them in rotation for the last week, great stuff. Food for thought: if Jaco died in a car crash in his late 20's and didn't mentally fall apart and the only thing we had to judge him on was the work he did then and not the subpar youtube videos people like to point to, this would be a different thread. IMHO
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So true. Same with the bass tone - on several of these live takes the bass is much less nasal (I know that turns off the dub tone folks).
 
#439
jerry said:
Yeah, I've had them in rotation for the last week, great stuff. Food for thought: if Jaco died in a car crash in his late 20's and didn't mentally fall apart and the only thing we had to judge him on was the work he did then and not the subpar youtube videos people like to point to, this would be a different thread. IMHO
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Was it intentional or not that you just described Scott LaFaro to a tee?
 
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