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I Miss The Big Stuff

#182
A good friend/bandmate of mine has a production company with a good amount of backline. When we gig, it's IEMs, he brings a Marshall Studio Vintage combo (a 20W Plexi) and I bring the Bass Fly Rig. It all sounds great and we like the convenience. However, this last Wednesday, we gathered at his office for practice and he had the Marshall 1987X/1960TV rig and a SVT/810 set up for me. It was really killer to not use the IEMs and feel and hear that oomph!
 
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#183
There is however a whole new way to play with the big stuff. For that purpose the current small stuff is excellent. That’s wet dry wet. Wich would be the ideal way to track a band to mix it in a 5.1 way. Any 8x10 wich has 4 * 2.10 compartiments is excellent just for that purpose.
 
#185
Yeah man, they can get loud...the point I was trying to get across is they don’t have to be loud to get their sweet spots tone wise. I sold my Twin Reverb sometime back, none of my >40 watt tube amps have been gigged in a long time.

So much in relative anyway...a 30 watt AC30 can be deafening...

Arthur U. Poon said:
Hi Ken. It amazes me how loud a guitar can get from a relatively low wattage tube amp. I’ve worked with a few outstanding guitarists who had great ears for tone.

One guy had a small, early 60’s Ampeg combo, I can’t remember the model, but it was like 30 or 35 watts. That little amp could get painfully loud. Luckily he was pretty good about his volume level. The 20+ watt Mesa Boogie combo he also used could get really loud too. He was keen on power tube distortion from his amps, and he told me that was why he preferred lower wattage combo amps for club gigs.

Another guy I worked with first had a 2-12” Rivera combo, then he switched to a 2-12” Mesa Boogie combo, - I think it was called a “Maverick“ or something like that. He used a bit higher wattage combos, and used quite a few effects pedals. When he would go for a solo on his Strat or his Tele, and he’d step on his Boost pedal and his amp would slam! He was an fantastic player, singer, and frontman.

I wore earplugs when I played with both of these guys but I can remember only one gig where a club Manager complained to the guitarist with the 2-12” Mesa about his volume.
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#186
Ken Morgan said:
Yeah man, they can get loud...the point I was trying to get across is they don’t have to be loud to get their sweet spots tone wise. I sold my Twin Reverb sometime back, none of my >40 watt tube amps have been gigged in a long time.

So much in relative anyway...a 30 watt AC30 can be deafening...
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Absolutely, I agree. And I wasn’t disagreeing with you at all. I really enjoy playing with musicians who keep their volume levels under control too. I was just mentioning that for whatever reason, a guitar can get pretty darn loud even with relatively low wattage, - in the wrong hands. I unfortunately have played with a few folks who were absolutely clueless.

Funny you should mention a Vox AC30. My friend who uses low wattage amps because he prefers power tube distortion also gigs with a Vox AC15. What a great sounding amp IMO.

And you mentioned a Fender Twin Reverb. That brings back memories of a long time ago for me. I played with a guy that used a Twin Reverb and a Strat and boy did he wind that amp up. Thank goodness for foam earplugs!:woot:

Maybe it’s my aging ears but I really liked a the sound of an old Marshall 2-12” combo a guy I played with used. He played a Les Paul and he always had a warm, singing tone. It wasn’t a harsh tone at all. But this guy was also a real Pro. He had a killer sound and it was always at a nice, reasonable volume.

Anyways, back to the Big Stuff, and sorry I derailed Jimmy’s thread. I already have a monster setup, which I’ll continue to use whenever I can get away with it. I also want another all tube bass head really bad. It’s been well over a decade since I sold my Ampeg SVT2-Pro and my 810E cabinet. It was one of my stupidest moves selling my Ampeg stack. :crying:
 
#187
Probably tough to find but if you want another big tube head give the Ashdown CTM-300 a try.
Arthur U. Poon said:
Absolutely, I agree. And I wasn’t disagreeing with you at all. I really enjoy playing with musicians who keep their volume levels under control too. I was just mentioning that for whatever reason, a guitar can get pretty darn loud even with relatively low wattage, - in the wrong hands. I unfortunately have played with a few folks who were absolutely clueless.

Funny you should mention a Vox AC30. My friend who uses low wattage amps because he prefers power tube distortion also gigs with a Vox AC15. What a great sounding amp IMO.

And you mentioned a Fender Twin Reverb. That brings back memories of a long time ago for me. I played with a guy that used a Twin Reverb and a Strat and boy did he wind that amp up. Thank goodness for foam earplugs!:woot:

Maybe it’s my aging ears but I really liked a the sound of an old Marshall 2-12” combo a guy I played with used. He played a Les Paul and he always had a warm, singing tone. It wasn’t a harsh tone at all. But this guy was also a real Pro. He had a killer sound and it was always at a nice, reasonable volume.

Anyways, back to the Big Stuff, and sorry I derailed Jimmy’s thread. I already have a monster setup, which I’ll continue to use whenever I can get away with it. I also want another all tube bass head really bad. It’s been well over a decade since I sold my Ampeg SVT2-Pro and my 810E cabinet. It was one of my stupidest moves selling my Ampeg stack. :crying:
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#188
FD1843D4-1605-4126-ABC5-A937001EEE09.jpeg

You mean like this for $600? I was laughing out the door! It has my Quilter BB800 as well as an SVT 3 collecting dust!

Keger Jupit said:
I Miss The Big Stuff

Can't say I do...because I refuse to jump on the "Class D, neo-speaker" bandwagon! I haven't tried all of it, but what I have tried has vastly underwhelmed me...

The good news is that the stuff I like, is getting cheaper by the day. I can afford to be picky when it comes to choice, too. Yep, it's win/win in Keger's World.

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#189
For me the "big stuff" was mostly lead-sled solid state gear. I clocked a lot of hours on GK, SWR, Hartke, and Ampeg SS, and some really old Trace gear before Markbass and the newer light-weight amps came along.

I learned early on that "it's good for you" to learn one's way around an SVT.

99% of the time, the first option offered by a backline provider is an SVT of some flavour with a "Classic" 810 or 410 cabinet. ...and if you take that first option without argument, the backline company loves you, even if they have to schlep that amp up onto the stage for you.

Great! That makes it easy!

But for my own rig, I stick to lighter gear, and it's great, too. TC and Hartke for me.
 
#191
I recently made a compromise that my ears are pretty happy with.

Gigged 9 or so years with Neo driver loaded light weight cabinets, they we're run by various "D" heads.

It was a O.K. sound.

Then 100 lbs. of Bergantino NV610 cabinet fell into my gigging life that's now being powered with a GK MB500 head that weighs in at 3.5 lbs..

GREAT big cabinet SLAM that I can only get with a multiple driver, big time cab.....BIG but LIGHT weight power that only a D class amp can give.
 
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#193
But dang do I miss hearing myself through a big juicy 810! And oh how I miss the sound of a good 412

I say go old school whenever possible!
Refuse in-ear monitors!
And for smaller gigs, dont rent a P.A. system
 
#194
JimmyM said:
But dang do I miss hearing myself through a big juicy 810! .... I've done many gigs with an SVT and 810 at B-15 volumes and it was still amazing sounding.
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Partly agree. In 40+ years of gigging, my favorite tone was my 70's SVT run LOUD into an 8x10 (and I preferred the original "coffin" to the newer "fridge"). Sure... that rig also sounded good at low volume, but to me the real magic happened when the power tubes warmed up.

For the past decade-plus my favorite gig cab has been the Bergantino NV610 (it's my smaller/lighter SVT cab), but I prefer lightweight solid state amps with overdrive pedals. Pedals never get me 100% of the old SVT-at-volume magic, but are plenty close enough -- and the huge advantage is that I can get that same "pushed amp" vibe at any volume.



JimmyM said:
And you try telling that to your band and venue manager when you show up for a small patio jazz gig with a 412 or 810, and they look at you like you are a mental patient. "No no," I said, "It works quietly, too!" But they never listen. And God forbid you want to ride with someone else and insist on that 810! Even a 410 is enough to get you dirty looks these days.
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LOL, I know exactly what you mean. For many years my main band was a stoopid-loud(tm) hard rock band, but I also did gigs with "normal volume" classic rock bands. On some weekends those gigs would alternate, so rather than shuffling amp rigs I'd use the big NV610 for all of them -- assuming there was enough room at all venues. I could tolerate the dirty looks, but unfortunately I once made a bad assumption about a venue and had to ask a bandmate to help me drag that big cab up a narrow flight of stairs. We then had to put the cab on its side, so the guitarist could put his amp on top of my cab, with my rack rig on its side next to the guitar amp. So from then on I erred on the side of caution, using my modular speaker rig: a pair of 2x10 cabs. I'd only use the big cab when I knew there was an easy load-in and I could play at volume.

My stoopid loud rock band fell apart a year ago, I don't do many loud gigs any more, and haven't used the NV610 in over a year. Now I love my current modular rig (2x1x12): it's efficient so it can get damn loud, and a single 1x12 is enough for many gigs. But I definitely miss the big cab. :(
 
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#195
Martone said:
I am still going in the other direction i.e. bigger is better. Recently added a second Mesa 215 to my stage rig. Granted, it is as much for show as necessity, but we ARE trying to put on a show.View attachment 3611111
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Visuals can be an important part of the decision for sure. It depends on what's most important to the overall goals.

skier 913 said:
And for smaller gigs, dont rent a P.A. system
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I'm sure the singers like this solution a lot...?
 
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#197
Back in the early 1980s (or was that the 1880s?), we three ran direct into the board, and drove 2 PA bins (15", horn), w/ 200W. Stacked on top of the bins, were smaller PA cabinets, we used as monitors. Easy to set up and break down. The drummer sang, so his mike picked up the drums. Guitarist (rhythm) ran direct, too. No FX. Just his MIJ 1981 Squier Stratocaster. When we played on local PBS TV, the studio engineer only had to take a line out feed - no miking needed. He was a happy camper.
 
#199
Small rigs and DI-into-PA are the way of the future for most bands, no question about it. But for me there's still something exciting about seeing a big backline on an expansive stage, and even the biggest and best PA system can't compensate for it. Maybe it's just the image of a full stage ...
 
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