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I Miss The Big Stuff

Oops...how silly of me not to take this opportunity to repost this pic:

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Hell yeah!

But even though I'll be playing this little guy tomorrow night and I'll be deliriously happy with my tone:

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My heart will be secretly breaking that I can't fit the 3610 through the door.
 
Pretty good, actually. Lost a little high end over the decades but so does everyone. Like I said in my opening post, I don't like the big stuff because it's loud. I like the big stuff because it sounds big at any volume. And I've played in some loud bands but we were always loud from the PA and not so much the stage.
Good point Jimmy! There is a difference. I should've paid better attention. I know a some prefer IEM's because the stage sound is quieter and that has been pointed out by a few of the posts.
 
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Oops...how silly of me not to take this opportunity to repost this pic:

View attachment 3604015

Hell yeah!

But even though I'll be playing this little guy tomorrow night and I'll be deliriously happy with my tone:

View attachment 3604017

My heart will be secretly breaking that I can't fit the 3610 through the door.
Hey at least you got to play the 3610! That’s a bucket list for many a TB’er!
 
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Good point Jimmy! There is a difference. I should've paid better attention. I know a some prefer IEM's because the stage sound is quieter and that has been pointed out by a few of the posts.
Honestly, I'd be way more worried about my hearing with IEM's. Some people like to blast them, too.
 
I'm probably one of a very few that sold my 8x10 for a iem pedalboard rig and doesn't miss it. I do use high quality iem's with a personal mixer and use a 8x10 impulse response with a Verrelen Meatsmoke tube preamp. Im also looking into getting a 1000 watt power amp added to my board so i can use it with cabs for stage fill when needed but thus far I haven't needed too.
 
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While I have an el-cheapo pair, over the past 6-8 months i've grown to appreciate IEM's. I still don't like them 100%, but I appreciate them in the one band. Having an unfireable drummer that never loses energy and hits hard on EVERY single song (ballad?? Ok, cymbal SMASH right here!) just sucks and as a result I had to start wearing custom earplugs on every single gig, so using IEM's was something I realized made sense in that band. Hearing is protected AND I get to hear everything much clearer.

I still do, and will for the foreseeable future bring my Fearless 2x12 out. Air movement...
 
A B3 grinding out through a leslie is wonderful thing in a live setting .
It's hard enough to get people to shows, audiences like props it's part of the show .

B3/Leslie, these make a wonderful sound. But on the road? Even a friend, who wouldn't use anything else, gave in after his 50th birthday and is now making just as good a sound with a Nord.
 
I miss the big stuff too. Coincidentally, I just finished a restoration project on a couple of Craigslist-acquired JBL MR815 bass cabinets, so I’ll go ahead and show them off here. They had rusty grills, missing insulation, broken handles and cabinet corners, but the drivers were perfect, and they are only 50 lbs each, so the schlep is not bad. I just finished getting them all squared away and looking as good as they sound. I think they’ll be a good match for my Traynor tube head...plus, the Traynor is a perfect fit front to back and side to side, which the OCD side of me really enjoys. This is going to be my classic rock cover band setup...come heck or high water!

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I giggled with an ampeg 810 for more than a decade. Mainly sold it because transporting it became a problem because of my vehicle situation at the time. What I use now isn’t a huge difference cab wise. It fits in a vehicle that is both more fun to drive and can fit my wife and kids (when there’s no gear in the car lol). There are subtle differences like I do like that the 410he has a horn and that the 15 is ported. That combination of a ported cab and a sealed cab is nice in my opinion. Might be worth mentioning that 95% of the time I only run an XLR out to FOH these days.
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I have been looking at newer cabs for years and realize there is different stuff out there but I have been sticking with ampeg classic cabs. I’m coming up on 20 years of using ampeg cabs.

As far as the in-ears ampless stage stuff. I do think it has some benefits. It’s big help for singers in particular. It can really help singers improve pitch. It can work really well for single band situations (church, single band cover gigs) But my personal opinion is it’s more of a compromise. A compromise I totally understand because as I get older I don’t want to move my heavy cabs 5-6 times a month anymore either. But I do think how a band sounds onstage matters. Especially in smaller venues where the backline could potentially fill the room. I’ve been mainly playing multiple band rock and metal originals gigs and with those shows you really get to see, hear, and feel a sorta A/B comparison when one band is ampless and the next uses traditional amps and personally for heavier music styles in the size venues I play I much prefer the old school way of doing things. I think ampless stages can result in a “tighter” sound out front. But for me as a music fan if “Tightness” was my primary concern when watching heavier bands play I’d probably stay at home and listen to a recording of that music instead of going to see a live show. The feel thing is important and imo it’s is very noticeable in these venues I’m playing. And I don’t think that’s just my opinion. Ive spend many nights watching the crowd while other bands on these shows play and how the crowd interacts with the show. And despite some bands that run ampless being amazing musicians I have seen better crowd interaction (moshing in particular) when bands use amps onstage. So while having backline rigs on stage might not sound as tight I do think it’s definitely more “rock and roll” That said When the day comes where I have to choose between not playing in a band anymore or going ampless I will go ampless.
Hate to break it to you kids, but downsizing and ampless gigs didn't just start a few years ago when micros and neo speakers came out on a wide scale.

It certainly didn't feel like downsizing when we wheeled in 80 lb solid state power amps and those big "sugar scoop" cabs for the PA, but it was. And ever since PA's got powerful enough to fill venues in a painfully loud but clean way, there have been ampless musicians. Keyboard players were the first to adapt, and who could blame them? Even the smallest keyboards of the day were big and bulky and you needed a good handful of them to get gigs. So why wouldn't you run them to the PA and just monitor them with a floor monitor at your first opportunity?

But bassists and guitarists had these little instruments and often only one back then, so we hung onto our big stuff, and there wasn't much downsizing going on with us, though there were folks who cut their 810's and 215's in half and did smaller gigs with them. There were some lower wattage combo users, but most of them either had adequate PA or played quieter in smaller rooms. And they were still pretty big compared to combos today.

But the slow crawl we did to ampless setups happened anyway. I started seeing bassists do it around here. First major band I saw doing it was Devo in 1980. At first I thought they were all DI but found a couple mic'ed MusicMan combos off in the wings. A bit disconcerting, but OK. Then a few more, and a few more, and I saw a set of IEM's first time in like 1990 with Sinead O'Connor on SNL. That was really disconcerting. I was afraid it was a sound tech/singer conspiracy to get us all using them, and I hated the idea of listening to my awesome tones on a portable music player.

Well it took 25 years to become truly widespread through all of live performance-dom, sound techs and singers, but mission accomplished. IEM's are consistently cheaper and better at lower prices all the time. Bassists can tailor their DI sounds with preamps that don't cost much money or take up much room, or they can show up with an instrument cord and say, "Plug me into something and let's go." Guitarists are finally not balking at the latest in digital gear, and those who still are also have a lot of choices for running direct in other ways, all of which are perfectly usable. Even drummers will sometimes forego their acoustic drums for digital despite the flaws if it pays enough, and if they won't, you can just put them in a glass box.

And I'm certainly no stranger to downsizing, either. I've done arena gigs with a B-15 and been asked to turn down. Even did a short series of ampless gigs earlier this year. It wasn't horrible. Everything sounded fine. I've got a handful of small stuff I use pretty much exclusively at the moment ranging from top of the line to the cheapest of the cheapest practice amps, and it all sounds terrific because it's well chosen and I play more right notes than wrong :D

But dang do I miss hearing myself through a big juicy 810! And oh how I miss the sound of a good 412 on guitar! And I hate when the drummer goes digital or gets stuck in a box. And it's not that I want to hear them loudly, either. They sound great to me at low volumes, too. Once heard a guitarist using a 412 with a 5w tube amp and he sounded so much better than the players I work with using smaller cabs. And I've done many gigs with an SVT and 810 at B-15 volumes and it was still amazing sounding.

And you try telling that to your band and venue manager when you show up for a small patio jazz gig with a 412 or 810, and they look at you like you are a mental patient. "No no," I said, "It works quietly, too!" But they never listen. And God forbid you want to ride with someone else and insist on that 810! Even a 410 is enough to get you dirty looks these days.

So you do what you need to do to keep getting the calls. Honestly, I don't mind the reduced schleps at all. I can get in and out of gigs faster than a sax player if I don't have to tote my upright. And my stuff is all quality or at least well-chosen cheap and I don't think I ever sound the least bit bad. But dang, do I love to hear myself through the big stuff! No matter how big the small stuff is, it just doesn't have the physics of the big stuff.
 
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I don’t miss refrigerators at all...for a time I used a Ric bass with one output into an Acoustic 371/301 setup, the other pushing a Sunn Coliseum... of course the two guitar players each used Ampeg V4s or V22, quite possible the loudest amps on earth.

now it’s enough to get a respectable stage sound level and timbre...guitar guys I work with use either 22 wat Deluxe Reverbs or 15 watt Badcats...and the stage mixes have never been better
 
...guitar guys I work with use either 22 watt Deluxe Reverbs or 15 watt Badcats...and the stage mixes have never been better

Hi Ken. It amazes me how loud a guitar can get from a relatively low wattage tube amp. I’ve worked with a few outstanding guitarists who had great ears for tone.

One guy had a small, early 60’s Ampeg combo, I can’t remember the model, but it was like 30 or 35 watts. That little amp could get painfully loud. Luckily he was pretty good about his volume level. The 20+ watt Mesa Boogie combo he also used could get really loud too. He was keen on power tube distortion from his amps, and he told me that was why he preferred lower wattage combo amps for club gigs.

Another guy I worked with first had a 2-12” Rivera combo, then he switched to a 2-12” Mesa Boogie combo, - I think it was called a “Maverick“ or something like that. He used a bit higher wattage combos, and used quite a few effects pedals. When he would go for a solo on his Strat or his Tele, and he’d step on his Boost pedal and his amp would slam! He was an fantastic player, singer, and frontman.

I wore earplugs when I played with both of these guys but I can remember only one gig where a club Manager complained to the guitarist with the 2-12” Mesa about his volume.
 
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I agree in the sense about using amps and cabs. Now, even though my Mesa 2x12 cab is in no means considered a big cab it delivers the big sound and I take pride in I guess calling it "traditional" where I still believe in bringing and using my amp and cab.
 
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