I was never into "the big stuff." None of it every beat my Ampeg B100R for tone, so that's all I used for 22 years. It had the fortunate side effect of being under 70 lb., and being a combo. Only recently "upgraded" to a PF-800, and honestly, it isn't half the amp the B100R was in terms of tone. But it does give me more than enough juice for any scenario, which was always the problem with the B100R. Most places I have ever played (and I estimate only about half on "good" tours), don't mic or DI the bass.
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I Miss The Big Stuff
- Thread starter JimmyM
- Start date
i miss my sir 750 and aguilar 210 cab on top of my 15 ev cab, we just got tired of lugging it around took up a lot of room. so i went with a markbass jeff berlin 151p combo; its not at all a bad amp, but i still miss my big rig, had pv t-40 and a use p bass.
I take my daughter to see these old guys play Yacht Rock in a tiny bowling club on a Sunday afternoon. They’re awesome singers and players, but loud! The drummer rips out a solo most gigs. It’s good. If they didn’t have amps and the drummer did a solo on electric kit, I reckon it would sound like total crud.
I dig all my sound coming out of one driver, too. It’s clearer and more articulate.I guess I am sort of the opposite. As long as my rig is loud enough to hear clearly, I tend to prefer smaller cabs with fewer drivers, or multi-way, full range cabs. To me a single 15 sounds better than a 215, and a 210 sounds better than an 810. IMHO adding drivers gives you more SPL capacity, but tends to diminish the sound quality. But if you need more volume or heavier lows, nothing satisfies like a big pile of speakers being pushed by a big amp .
When I was still touring I had an Eden D210XLT, a D410XLT, and QSC power amp rated at 250W per channel. Most of the time I used only the 210. The 410 was a bit fuller and louder, but it didn't help me hear any better. The 410 was also a lot heavier, and I had plenty of other heavy stuff to deal with, since we didn't have roadies.
I have had people give me hard time for my little GK 700RB/112 combo.
I’d love to see the look on my band’s faces if I set these up at s gig..!!!!
I don't really have much nostalgia for the old big heavy rigs of the past and I'm definitely from the past. Been gigging professionally for 50 years, starting in 1968. Did it full time from '74-81.
I have to admit that the largest rig I personally owned back in the day was 2 1x15 JBL D140F loaded cabs driven by 2 dual showman amps (one for each cab, so 200w driving 2x15's). I also used a blue sparkle tuck-and-roll Kustom 200 into a matching JBL loaded 2x15 for a while in the 70's. In more recent times, I did own and occasionally gig a Berg 6x10 driven by several different amps (SVT 6Pro, Fender Studio Bass, Mesa Walkabout), but I actually just sold the Berg cab so that's not an option for me anymore. With the advent of smaller, lighter, high power and high quality rigs along with high quality, high powered PA's, I find that its counter productive to have huge stage rigs ... it tends to over power the stage volume and interfere with what the PA seems to do better these days (IMO/IME).
I have played countless larger rigs in venue or tour provided backlines: lots of SVT/810's, some Acoustic 370's, GK 2x 4x10's, some Aguilar 750 2x 4x10's etc etc .... and I'm never unhappy to see a big backline rig that has been well integrated into the FOH and monitors. But, when I'm hauling the bass rig, I'm perfectly happy with a neo 2x12 (Berg CN212) driven by a Mesa WD800 and it works/sounds great for 95% of what I do these days (80-ish gigs/year in medium to large venues and a number of big festival stages).
OTOH, if folks like big iron and 8x10 cabs, then by all means, play what you like.
I have to admit that the largest rig I personally owned back in the day was 2 1x15 JBL D140F loaded cabs driven by 2 dual showman amps (one for each cab, so 200w driving 2x15's). I also used a blue sparkle tuck-and-roll Kustom 200 into a matching JBL loaded 2x15 for a while in the 70's. In more recent times, I did own and occasionally gig a Berg 6x10 driven by several different amps (SVT 6Pro, Fender Studio Bass, Mesa Walkabout), but I actually just sold the Berg cab so that's not an option for me anymore. With the advent of smaller, lighter, high power and high quality rigs along with high quality, high powered PA's, I find that its counter productive to have huge stage rigs ... it tends to over power the stage volume and interfere with what the PA seems to do better these days (IMO/IME).
I have played countless larger rigs in venue or tour provided backlines: lots of SVT/810's, some Acoustic 370's, GK 2x 4x10's, some Aguilar 750 2x 4x10's etc etc .... and I'm never unhappy to see a big backline rig that has been well integrated into the FOH and monitors. But, when I'm hauling the bass rig, I'm perfectly happy with a neo 2x12 (Berg CN212) driven by a Mesa WD800 and it works/sounds great for 95% of what I do these days (80-ish gigs/year in medium to large venues and a number of big festival stages).
OTOH, if folks like big iron and 8x10 cabs, then by all means, play what you like.
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I'm 59 years old I still Luv my old big heavy crap around cuz I like to feel it as well as hear it
I agree Jimmy! Even in the smallest clubs during the early 80's, I'd get the best sound out of my 8-10 SVT cab driven by a 200W Peavey Mark III, even at volume 1-2. I remember one tiny club with a narrow stage, where I had to stand in one spot between that cabinet and the mic stand (I once turned it up to 4 before the sound check; all the glasses in the bar were shaking and the bartender was p.o.'d) ! Later, I used my early 60's B-18N as a monitor while plugged direct. That SVT cabinet's since been sold (to the White Lion Bassist). I don't gig much anymore, but still love the sound of my B-18. Only problem is...I'm trying to baby that amp 'cause I don't want to have to replace any tubes!
You can pry my Sunn 2000s and 2x15s from my cold, dead hands. Everyone's getting smaller and I'm over here thinking "Hmmm, yes, I think I should get a Hiwatt full stack to go with the Marshalls and Sunns". I've played some fantastic small gear, I'm consistently impressed with the Fender Rumbles for small, lightweight combos. And I'll usually let the Sound man stick a DI on if he will also Mic the cab or let the cab do the heavy lifting, looking to get a RNDI to run the DI after the power amp. But there is no replacement for displacement. I'm not saying bigger is better, but bigger is different, no two ways about it.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
I hear you, Jimmy.
On the other hand, it's great to be able to have a bass, compact amp, and cab (that sound GREAT) in our travel trailer as we tour America's national parks - and other fun stuff - in retirement.
I am constantly amazed by the power and sound quality of current, small, gear when compared to the BIG STUFF I used to schlep around.
On the other hand, it's great to be able to have a bass, compact amp, and cab (that sound GREAT) in our travel trailer as we tour America's national parks - and other fun stuff - in retirement.
I am constantly amazed by the power and sound quality of current, small, gear when compared to the BIG STUFF I used to schlep around.
Nope! Love the lightweight powerful neo cabs and micro heads. Bass gear was always like lugging around a Yugo. Glad we have made changes for the better and my back.
The only post where this was mentioned. How's everyone's hearing after all those years of "Big Stuff"?
Hate to break it to you kids, but downsizing and ampless gigs didn't just start a few years ago when micros and neo speakers came out on a wide scale.
It certainly didn't feel like downsizing when we wheeled in 80 lb solid state power amps and those big "sugar scoop" cabs for the PA, but it was. And ever since PA's got powerful enough to fill venues in a painfully loud but clean way, there have been ampless musicians. Keyboard players were the first to adapt, and who could blame them? Even the smallest keyboards of the day were big and bulky and you needed a good handful of them to get gigs. So why wouldn't you run them to the PA and just monitor them with a floor monitor at your first opportunity?
But bassists and guitarists had these little instruments and often only one back then, so we hung onto our big stuff, and there wasn't much downsizing going on with us, though there were folks who cut their 810's and 215's in half and did smaller gigs with them. There were some lower wattage combo users, but most of them either had adequate PA or played quieter in smaller rooms. And they were still pretty big compared to combos today.
But the slow crawl we did to ampless setups happened anyway. I started seeing bassists do it around here. First major band I saw doing it was Devo in 1980. At first I thought they were all DI but found a couple mic'ed MusicMan combos off in the wings. A bit disconcerting, but OK. Then a few more, and a few more, and I saw a set of IEM's first time in like 1990 with Sinead O'Connor on SNL. That was really disconcerting. I was afraid it was a sound tech/singer conspiracy to get us all using them, and I hated the idea of listening to my awesome tones on a portable music player.
Well it took 25 years to become truly widespread through all of live performance-dom, sound techs and singers, but mission accomplished. IEM's are consistently cheaper and better at lower prices all the time. Bassists can tailor their DI sounds with preamps that don't cost much money or take up much room, or they can show up with an instrument cord and say, "Plug me into something and let's go." Guitarists are finally not balking at the latest in digital gear, and those who still are also have a lot of choices for running direct in other ways, all of which are perfectly usable. Even drummers will sometimes forego their acoustic drums for digital despite the flaws if it pays enough, and if they won't, you can just put them in a glass box.
And I'm certainly no stranger to downsizing, either. I've done arena gigs with a B-15 and been asked to turn down. Even did a short series of ampless gigs earlier this year. It wasn't horrible. Everything sounded fine. I've got a handful of small stuff I use pretty much exclusively at the moment ranging from top of the line to the cheapest of the cheapest practice amps, and it all sounds terrific because it's well chosen and I play more right notes than wrong
But dang do I miss hearing myself through a big juicy 810! And oh how I miss the sound of a good 412 on guitar! And I hate when the drummer goes digital or gets stuck in a box. And it's not that I want to hear them loudly, either. They sound great to me at low volumes, too. Once heard a guitarist using a 412 with a 5w tube amp and he sounded so much better than the players I work with using smaller cabs. And I've done many gigs with an SVT and 810 at B-15 volumes and it was still amazing sounding.
And you try telling that to your band and venue manager when you show up for a small patio jazz gig with a 412 or 810, and they look at you like you are a mental patient. "No no," I said, "It works quietly, too!" But they never listen. And God forbid you want to ride with someone else and insist on that 810! Even a 410 is enough to get you dirty looks these days.
So you do what you need to do to keep getting the calls. Honestly, I don't mind the reduced schleps at all. I can get in and out of gigs faster than a sax player if I don't have to tote my upright. And my stuff is all quality or at least well-chosen cheap and I don't think I ever sound the least bit bad. But dang, do I love to hear myself through the big stuff! No matter how big the small stuff is, it just doesn't have the physics of the big stuff.
I did an outside gig 4 or 5 years ago and brought an SVT with two cabs (810 SVT cabs) one of the guitarists started crying before I even turned it on.
I love an old non master volume Marshall or a good Fender amp. I did a gig last week in tiny place but which is usually pretty loud and brought an SVT head and an Ampeg 410 cab, the drummer looked at me like I had two heads and I told him the SVT had less wattage than the class D amps their regular bassist used, he said something like "well it's the way they measure them" and still looked a little concerned,
. I started out cautiously and asked a friend sitting in back to warn me if it got too loud, I had a great gig and everyone loved it. I usually bring an SVT to gigs in Lima with one or two Ampeg 15"s and people are always wary there too, I think SVT heads scare people all over the world. I don't care for me they are by far the best sounding big amp out there. You hire me you get my SVT, it's as much a part of my sound as is my bass. I have used many different cabs with the head and don't need to use an 810 but the head comes. I don't care how big or small a cab is as long as it handles the head and has some bottom, it's got to move air.
44 years of SVT's and I hear fine. I stay out of the line of fire with guitarists and also loud cymbals and snares which are really what kills your hearing..
I show up with my 810 and a gk1001rb
If the sound person says something about stage volume, I just tell them it's a solid state amp, so it sounds good at low volume.
I've never had one complain after sound check.
Is my 810 tough to move? No, it's under 100 pounds with a kick plate, wheels, and nice handles.
Is it big? Yes. It's 1 dollar bigger than my 210.
1 dollar bigger? One dollar, Bob. It's 7 inches wider and 2.25 inches deeper. That's less square inches of floor space than a dollar bill.
I'd rather wheel my 810 that lift and carry my 210.
If the sound person says something about stage volume, I just tell them it's a solid state amp, so it sounds good at low volume.
I've never had one complain after sound check.
Is my 810 tough to move? No, it's under 100 pounds with a kick plate, wheels, and nice handles.
Is it big? Yes. It's 1 dollar bigger than my 210.
1 dollar bigger? One dollar, Bob. It's 7 inches wider and 2.25 inches deeper. That's less square inches of floor space than a dollar bill.
I'd rather wheel my 810 that lift and carry my 210.
Good to hear(no pun intended). FWIW the post wasn't meant to be rhetorical. Stage volume and hearing loss is a whole another topic that would go on and on in typical TB fashion. Being old school and older (I'm 61) it was a dream to have a stage rig like that: SVT head and an 8x10 cab. I still have the EDEN WT 550 that's in my avatar but use a Bergie Forte now.
Pretty good, actually. Lost a little high end over the decades but so does everyone. Like I said in my opening post, I don't like the big stuff because it's loud. I like the big stuff because it sounds big at any volume. And I've played in some loud bands but we were always loud from the PA and not so much the stage.
