Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
I Still Don’t Feel Fulfilled
- Thread starter Jalen Fuller
- Start date
Call me a jerk, but if you are financing a music major, you will not earn enough to pay back your college loans. The rule of thumb in college financing is to borrow no more than what you believe your first years earnings will be upon graduation. The path to a job with a music undergrad is to go to graduate school, assume more debt and hope to get a teaching job. Unfortunately, no music teaching position will pay you enough to make your loan payments. You will be saddled with debt forever.
There are only a few college majors nowadays that can get you a good position with a four year degree. Accounting, computer science and engineering come to mind. If you go to a state school, finance it wisely, you will be able to pay off the loans as those degrees will get you a high paying job, anywhere from $60,000 ~ $100,000 a year.
Then learn bass from a high school kid and start a bar band. You will have a high paying day job that will give you the freedom to enjoy a fun music pastime.
Even if someone else is financing your music undergrad degree, I see it as a poor use of funds.
Sorry to be cruel, but I have seen it all, done it all, and am a survivor. In the words of Neil Young, please take my advice.
There are only a few college majors nowadays that can get you a good position with a four year degree. Accounting, computer science and engineering come to mind. If you go to a state school, finance it wisely, you will be able to pay off the loans as those degrees will get you a high paying job, anywhere from $60,000 ~ $100,000 a year.
Then learn bass from a high school kid and start a bar band. You will have a high paying day job that will give you the freedom to enjoy a fun music pastime.
Even if someone else is financing your music undergrad degree, I see it as a poor use of funds.
Sorry to be cruel, but I have seen it all, done it all, and am a survivor. In the words of Neil Young, please take my advice.
Most general music programs don't require you stick to one instrument. If it's not a "Bass Guitar" program, then you can pretty much pick up any instrument and apply the theory you learn to it.
Your teachers will likely always have a piano nearby. In fact, it's highly recommended that bass players have access to a piano or keyboard when studying because you spend A LOT of time learning the makeup of chords and how they fit together. That usually requires a keyboard instrument.
For instance, when I was in music, I had my bass guitar, sure - but I did most of my work on Harpsichord and Clavichord... I had to tune the damn things all the time, too... lol.
I agree with frankie5string about this. He's right! You have signed up to do what they teach in this class. It takes commitment. That's why I suggested you take a little time and make up your mind. Think for yourself! Don't do what other people think you should do if it makes you unhappy. However, your friends & family are probably trying to advise you to get an education for a stable future.
Last edited:
Where is or do you have a social network? Can they not provide you with some guidance? What is your age roughly? 19, 20? My point is that you are still young and have many years ahead of you for finding your way. The other view is that there are many artists, singers, and musicians who are actually very successful by your age. I wanted to be in a rock since I was 5 or 6. I am 58 and still playing in an band and loving it. I never "made" it but it wasn't from a lack of trying.
No one is required to help you in this regard and I don't think they should. This is your choice and you will be happiest if it comes from within.
Good luck on your journey. I hope you realize that music is very challenging and it it takes a lot of work and dedication not matter what genre/instrument you prefer.
No one is required to help you in this regard and I don't think they should. This is your choice and you will be happiest if it comes from within.
Good luck on your journey. I hope you realize that music is very challenging and it it takes a lot of work and dedication not matter what genre/instrument you prefer.
If you want career advice I would probably tell you to do something else. Music is not really a profession that I would recommend for anyone who is not driven to be a musician. If you are driven to be a musician, I think you pretty much have to follow your heart to some degree, and you may not necessarily find a lucrative career. If you do plan to be a pro, you do need to develop the necessary skills and attain the necessary knowledge. These vary depending upon how you decide to specialize, which is where following your heart comes in. I was a generalist so I was mediocre at everything but I found an employer that value my unique skills and talents. Most people tend to specialize in certain areas, and they can play at a higher level than I can within their specialty. Outside of their specialty I tend to be able to play at an equal or higher level.
Part of the reason that I think so many musicians are unhappy is they think they should be rewarded for following their dreams and doing what they want to do, rather than doing what listeners and patrons want. Most people are not successful with this approach, partly because they are looking for external validation rather than simply playing for the joy of playing, and partly because they are not really providing anything that anyone really wants to hear. Most musical performance is more service based than art form IMHO. So you need your patrons a musical experience that provides value, otherwise you won't be asked back. If you want to play in specific style that does not have wide spread appeal, you need to find a niche market where you will be appreciated.
It is really impossible to give you direction without knowing why you are pursuing music. Most people who survive exclusively as musicians do it through a mix of music related activities to include: teaching, performing, arranging, composing, instrument repair, etc. Most performers take gigs in a wide range of styles instead of just doing what they like. Wages are too low, and opportunities too few to just do what you like...unless you like everything.
If you want career advice I would probably tell you to do something else. Music is not really a profession that I would recommend for anyone who is not driven to be a musician. If you are driven to be a musician, I think you pretty much have to follow your heart to some degree, and you may not necessarily find a lucrative career. If you do plan to be a pro, you do need to develop the necessary skills and attain the necessary knowledge. These vary depending upon how you decide to specialize, which is where following your heart comes in. I was a generalist so I was mediocre at everything but I found an employer that value my unique skills and talents. Most people tend to specialize in certain areas, and they can play at a higher level than I can within their specialty. Outside of their specialty I tend to be able to play at an equal or higher level.
Part of the reason that I think so many musicians are unhappy is they think they should be rewarded for following their dreams and doing what they want to do, rather than doing what listeners and patrons want. Most people are not successful with this approach, partly because they are looking for external validation rather than simply playing for the joy of playing, and partly because they are not really providing anything that anyone really wants to hear. Most musical performance is more service based than art form IMHO. So you need your patrons a musical experience that provides value, otherwise you won't be asked back. If you want to play in specific style that does not have wide spread appeal, you need to find a niche market where you will be appreciated.
It is really impossible to give you direction without knowing why you are pursuing music. Most people who survive exclusively as musicians do it through a mix of music related activities to include: teaching, performing, arranging, composing, instrument repair, etc. Most performers take gigs in a wide range of styles instead of just doing what they like. Wages are too low, and opportunities too few to just do what you like...unless you like everything.
My family were much more supportive back when my career passion was science and to be honest I had more passion for that when I was into it then music.
It's good you identified that. Today, jobs are very degree specific, much more so than in my generation. So before you borrow $60,000, find out if the major you have chosen will actually pay that a year in salary. A history undergrad is good for a teaching position only. But that four year degree will not get you teaching credentials in most states. You will need grad school, so more financing. About another $40,000. I don't know of any history teaching jobs, or any teaching jobs that pay enough to pay back $100,000 in student loans.
Given all that, what are your goals with college? Lots of jobs can be had with an Associates degree from a Tech School. Probably cost you $10,000, and you'll get a job that starts at $25/hr and up.
Since college costs so darn much today, and most jobs are very degree specific, just going to college without a clear plan to getting a high paying job can wind up being a very costly mistake that will take a lifetime to recover from. In my day, a kid could actually earn enough over summer to pay for fall and spring state college costs. Those days are gone.
Once again, take some time and make up YOUR mind before you spend a lot of money & time on a path you don't like, or are not happy with. Depending on when your school year starts - if you can spend this summer figuring it out, you can save a lot of money. You still may change your mind again later. Just don't commit fully to something you don't like. Something WILL make you feel fulfilled. Take some time and find that thing. No one on TalkBass can make that decision for you.
Last edited:
I mostly just played originally to scratch an itch but I kept at it because it made me feel big in high school when barely anyone knew I existed
That is absolutely the wrong reason to enter a college music program.
Life is hard and tough, unfortunately. A lot of people say do what you love or makes you happy or do what makes want to get up early in the morning for but THATS all B***Sh*t. Don't get me wrong, they're those who are living their dreams but far too many are doing what is NECESSARY. We can't all do what we love or there will be over saturation in certain fields. Do you know many kids want to be athletes or movie stars or singers/rappers or professional FORTNITE player. A lot of these kids grow up and end up doing what pays the BILLS.
Fulfillment comes from within not from the adulation of others.
Think less... play more.
Think less... play more.
I also thought of doing nursing as well because I wouldn't be a fit for engineering or being an accountant.
In my experience in Canada high school was horrible at prepping me to choose a career path. I chose engineering because my sister took it and I couldn't think of anything else (except history ironically). I was already graduated with an accounting degree before I discovered things like corporate communications, contract law and process design which are more interesting. I would suggest meeting with family and friends in the workforce and learn about their careers. You might discover something out there that is not obvious in a college course list.
@Jalen Fuller, it is probably time to take a break. Maybe get a job (any job) and think about what you actually want to do. If the military / marines thing does not appeal to you, think long and hard about where you see yourself. But you could be making money while you decide instead of spending it.
It is unfortunate that so few people have direction. That's fine. Chances are good you'll change careers a few times anyway. Seeing as how that is the case....
...don't run yourself into an insurmountable debt following a path you have no passion towards. You've gotten some seriously good financial advice here. I'm not as old as some of these guys (back half of GenX) and I had a million advantages over you and your contemporaries in terms of cost of living and finding jobs. Some of these guys had it easier than me and I think we're all really sympathetic to the plight you have.
Lastly, FWIW, the best "revenge" is a life well lived. A few folks have told you that. I never made my 20 year, but it was amazing at my 10 year that the most popular kids still lived in our hometown, many doing nothing remarkable and a lot of their beauty had faded. The most interesting people were also the most successful and weren't afraid to follow their own paths. You have nothing to prove to anyone.
It is unfortunate that so few people have direction. That's fine. Chances are good you'll change careers a few times anyway. Seeing as how that is the case....
...don't run yourself into an insurmountable debt following a path you have no passion towards. You've gotten some seriously good financial advice here. I'm not as old as some of these guys (back half of GenX) and I had a million advantages over you and your contemporaries in terms of cost of living and finding jobs. Some of these guys had it easier than me and I think we're all really sympathetic to the plight you have.
Lastly, FWIW, the best "revenge" is a life well lived. A few folks have told you that. I never made my 20 year, but it was amazing at my 10 year that the most popular kids still lived in our hometown, many doing nothing remarkable and a lot of their beauty had faded. The most interesting people were also the most successful and weren't afraid to follow their own paths. You have nothing to prove to anyone.
My view is that you shouldn't worry about how you feel day to day. Feelings are fickle and untrustworthy. What you choose, know and believe are more important.
A parent might not "feel" like they love their child when it's picking it's nose and wiping it on the new couch, but they choose to love the child even in that moment.
How you feel will change day to day. You might not feel like practicing today, tomorrow might be better, it might not. Do you choose to keep up with the music program or choose to do something else (with or without being a musician)?
The high school kid that taught me how to play bass eventually went to a nationally recognized engineering school, and he was fortunate enough to earn many scholarships to cover most of the costs. Funny thing, he hated being an engineer, quit, and makes hand made pasta to sell at farmers markets now.
On a side note, I had a hunch he didn't really want to be or have any interest within to be an engineer. When he was giving me lessons, he didn't have much interest in all my audio gear, I always had breadboards of projects going, making amps, cabs, and I have no BSEE degree. I'm sort of a self taught Edison & Tesla kind of geek (ya, I know those guys are polar opposites) been that way all my life. I earned a BA in photography, earned my living as a commercial photographer, but I'd been a self-taught photographer since about 10, had a darkroom going at my neighbors house, and another one at school. And in between shooting sports games and school events for the paper, I set up audio gear and was a DJ for dances after the basketball games. All my interests and passions came from within. So when I did go to college, it was for something I was already doing and had a drive for.
A few years ago, I closed my studio, went to the local tech for two years to study IT, and now make my living creating multi-media on-line learning objects for people in the automotive business. I use my photo skills, my audio knowledge, and added the computer skills I recently learned. But it was all derived from stuff I was already doing.
On a side note, I had a hunch he didn't really want to be or have any interest within to be an engineer. When he was giving me lessons, he didn't have much interest in all my audio gear, I always had breadboards of projects going, making amps, cabs, and I have no BSEE degree. I'm sort of a self taught Edison & Tesla kind of geek (ya, I know those guys are polar opposites) been that way all my life. I earned a BA in photography, earned my living as a commercial photographer, but I'd been a self-taught photographer since about 10, had a darkroom going at my neighbors house, and another one at school. And in between shooting sports games and school events for the paper, I set up audio gear and was a DJ for dances after the basketball games. All my interests and passions came from within. So when I did go to college, it was for something I was already doing and had a drive for.
A few years ago, I closed my studio, went to the local tech for two years to study IT, and now make my living creating multi-media on-line learning objects for people in the automotive business. I use my photo skills, my audio knowledge, and added the computer skills I recently learned. But it was all derived from stuff I was already doing.
Last edited:
