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I think Fender is seriously crazy!
- Thread starter FishDub
- Start date
you guys are too funny...
your focusing on the wrong part of my argument but whatever...
Ask any economist how they feel about unions...
Unions may achieve benefits for their members, although they harm the overall economy
the cost of running a unionized busisness is 25% to 35% more than a non-unionized business
The employee is the one who puts it all on the line during a labor dispute. It is the union employee who is not receiving a paycheck or benefits during a strike.
In addition to obvious increased costs, there are those that affect morale, creativity and resiliency. Ultimately, an organization's profit margin declines. Productivity has been proven to be lower in unionized environments.
Interruption in service provision or production if a work stoppage or strike occurs.
if you think these things don't affect the cost of goods produced in America your simply blind....even goods produced by non-union businesses..
unions are basically cartels that raise wages above competitive levels by restricting the supply of workers to various industry and by so doing...unions reduce the number of jobs in unionized firms... all union gains come at the expense of non-union workers, American consumers and American businesses, while making themselves fat off your labor.
look at what the UAW has done to the american automobile for a fine example...
I done talking about this....
back to the topic at hand..
American Fenders may be great (Not enough in My Personal experience to justify the difference in cost from a MIM)
but I'm really sick and tired of hearing "Why don't you get a REAL Fender?
Really!?
why don't you spend less time worrying about what is on my headstock and play...how about that
Fender will charge what the Market will allow for whatever they want..buy it or don't
your focusing on the wrong part of my argument but whatever...
Ask any economist how they feel about unions...
Unions may achieve benefits for their members, although they harm the overall economy
the cost of running a unionized busisness is 25% to 35% more than a non-unionized business
The employee is the one who puts it all on the line during a labor dispute. It is the union employee who is not receiving a paycheck or benefits during a strike.
In addition to obvious increased costs, there are those that affect morale, creativity and resiliency. Ultimately, an organization's profit margin declines. Productivity has been proven to be lower in unionized environments.
Interruption in service provision or production if a work stoppage or strike occurs.
if you think these things don't affect the cost of goods produced in America your simply blind....even goods produced by non-union businesses..
unions are basically cartels that raise wages above competitive levels by restricting the supply of workers to various industry and by so doing...unions reduce the number of jobs in unionized firms... all union gains come at the expense of non-union workers, American consumers and American businesses, while making themselves fat off your labor.
look at what the UAW has done to the american automobile for a fine example...
I done talking about this....
back to the topic at hand..
American Fenders may be great (Not enough in My Personal experience to justify the difference in cost from a MIM)
but I'm really sick and tired of hearing "Why don't you get a REAL Fender?
Really!?
why don't you spend less time worrying about what is on my headstock and play...how about that
Fender will charge what the Market will allow for whatever they want..buy it or don't
Maybe your ESPs just don't sound that good to the people saying that to you - personally, I've been somewhat underwhelmed by them - and certainly wouldn't put one above a good MIA Fender... You *seem* to be a Fender hater, without coming out and saying it, though - whatever....
To each their own, as always...
- georgestrings
Lol....that comment was in reference to my MIM Fender 70's classic P
and No i don't hate them i own 2..lol i simply think there are better choices out there for the same money...like ESP..lol
there was a few years where i avoided them like the plague simply because they were shoved down my throat (and still are for that matter) in Highschool Jaz band...
than i was hired to play a studio track for a country band and the producer about had baby farm animals when i showed up with an Alembic...
as far as my ESP's go they are not going anywhere anytime soon..
Link Removed
i would play this over any Fender any day..lol
but that's just my .02
There are plenty of economists that don't have a negative view of either unions or higher wages. It's hard to believe that people still make blanket statements like that in the era of Google.
The real problem in America is not where our basses are made, it's that more and more people are confusing their own opinions with actual facts.
You sir have obviously never run your own business that has had to deal with the Teamsters or the WWU (Which caused me to have to pass the expense on to the consumer).....and i have stated many many many times this is my OPINION..and my personal experience....lol
Got a job with insurance as a benny? Got a job with paid vacation time? Got a job that doesn't hire 8 year olds?
Answer yes to any of these questions, and then tell me you're against unions.
I stated earlier in the thread that i believe that had their place and time....but are now fat bloated cancerous dinosaurs...<------OPINION!
guys my Opinion and personal experience is clearly stated
Not going to continue to beat a dead horse to a bloody pulp
not arguing here anymore as this thread is about the rising cost of Fenders..
go play your MIA Fenders and i'll play my MIM...lol and the world will continue to spin
Wow. From Fender's pricing policy to the pros and cons (mostly cons) of trade unions.
The mind boggles.
I like the idea of trade unions. If there is one thing that capitalism is rubbish at, it is resource management. We have moved towards automating many manufacturing processes in a bid to save money and time. How does that all add up? You employ fewer people over time. If you don't have a job, in a capitalist society, you can look forward to starving. The Atlas Shrugged thumpers of this world (luckily on the other side of the pond from me) will tell you that the unemployed person brought it on themselves, and if they had a better work ethic then they would not be in the mess they were in. It seems like a no-win situation apart from a small elite. For this reason I wish the 'Occupy' movement every success, be it from a mostly impartial distance. I think you can view capitalism as a very necessary part of human development, but I think that it is slowly serving is to a less beneficial degree over time. Watch how big business tries to deal with climate change, climate mitigation, internalising any environmental externalities etc etc... Even if you think climate change has nothing to do with man's influence, there is a need to make changes to offset the impacts it will have in the future. Capitalism is fairly incapable of handling this.
From personal experience I've found trade unions to be fairly aggressive and cut-throat and unwilling to tolerate any dissent in the ranks. This was a problem when I had to go and cross a picket line (I was not in the union) and was told, firstly, that I was a 'scabbing *******' and that secondly, my reputation as a scab would follow me to each and every place of work I ever found myself in. I would, therefore, be bullied for my lack of support for a trade union. Pretty rough times. Where I worked, the guys actually called each other 'neighbour' and 'comrade' and there was a lot of favoritism.
Hope this post was obtuse and pseudo-intellectual enough for this thread.
The mind boggles.
I like the idea of trade unions. If there is one thing that capitalism is rubbish at, it is resource management. We have moved towards automating many manufacturing processes in a bid to save money and time. How does that all add up? You employ fewer people over time. If you don't have a job, in a capitalist society, you can look forward to starving. The Atlas Shrugged thumpers of this world (luckily on the other side of the pond from me) will tell you that the unemployed person brought it on themselves, and if they had a better work ethic then they would not be in the mess they were in. It seems like a no-win situation apart from a small elite. For this reason I wish the 'Occupy' movement every success, be it from a mostly impartial distance. I think you can view capitalism as a very necessary part of human development, but I think that it is slowly serving is to a less beneficial degree over time. Watch how big business tries to deal with climate change, climate mitigation, internalising any environmental externalities etc etc... Even if you think climate change has nothing to do with man's influence, there is a need to make changes to offset the impacts it will have in the future. Capitalism is fairly incapable of handling this.
From personal experience I've found trade unions to be fairly aggressive and cut-throat and unwilling to tolerate any dissent in the ranks. This was a problem when I had to go and cross a picket line (I was not in the union) and was told, firstly, that I was a 'scabbing *******' and that secondly, my reputation as a scab would follow me to each and every place of work I ever found myself in. I would, therefore, be bullied for my lack of support for a trade union. Pretty rough times. Where I worked, the guys actually called each other 'neighbour' and 'comrade' and there was a lot of favoritism.
Hope this post was obtuse and pseudo-intellectual enough for this thread.
That's fine, but I'll just add that the second they're gone, that's when workers can expect to see wages plummet and all bennies cut. Highly doubtful we'll see 8 year olds working in coal mines again, I'll give you that one 
And this is why people shouldn't bring politics into discussions that have nothing to do with politics... Never understood people that have to steer things that way.. Ah well. Things sure have changed from when I was a kid. I was raised to not talk about politics or religion in polite company.
On a side note, is there not a way to block people in this forum? I tend to block all people that bring politics and religion into discussions, and I just can't see a way to do that here.
On a side note, is there not a way to block people in this forum? I tend to block all people that bring politics and religion into discussions, and I just can't see a way to do that here.
Click "My Talkbass," then scroll down to "buddy/ignore lists" in the control panel. I'd advise against blocking Snakeman over this, though. He's usually pretty good and helpful. I can give you a whole huge list of people who are more worthy of blocking
I, as a business owner; was simply trying to state why i thought prices are going up across the board on many models...
again my opinion
i'll be the first to admit I'm totally biased when it comes to unions simply because of my personal headaches and experiences with them, and what the personally cost me as a business man in America. Having to deal with them made me have to raise the cost of my product by 20%...a cost i had no choice but to pass on the the american consumer.
when i went to BUY a Fender i tried every model available to me at my local stores and in the end i went home with a MIM, as it offered me the best bang for my money in terms of fit and finish as well as cosmetics.
And I for one get really really sick and tired of others players coming down on me for not buying a "REAL" Fender it's really stupid...
When i'm out at the local bar nobody cares what i play except other bass players...a fact i find quite funny
been playing Hartke amps since the late 80's and early 90's and i get crap for that as well...from guess who...yep other bass guys that spent 4 times as much on their rig...it's stupid
Being a Biker i also see Harley guys coming down hard on guys that buy Sportsters...same argument....buy a REAL Harley....and nobody else seems to care except the guys that spent another 8,000 for a bike with the same emblem on the tank
in the end it a chunk of wood with magnets and metal bolted to it....they will all get the job done....and in my case i'll use the extra $400.00 to $600.00 towards another purchase...
to each his own
we are supposed to be a brotherhood and yet we seem to delight in tearing each other down based on what we play
not much different from the persecution seen between races and religions if you ask me.....all of it stupid....
off to band practice!!
again my opinion
i'll be the first to admit I'm totally biased when it comes to unions simply because of my personal headaches and experiences with them, and what the personally cost me as a business man in America. Having to deal with them made me have to raise the cost of my product by 20%...a cost i had no choice but to pass on the the american consumer.
when i went to BUY a Fender i tried every model available to me at my local stores and in the end i went home with a MIM, as it offered me the best bang for my money in terms of fit and finish as well as cosmetics.
And I for one get really really sick and tired of others players coming down on me for not buying a "REAL" Fender it's really stupid...
When i'm out at the local bar nobody cares what i play except other bass players...a fact i find quite funny
been playing Hartke amps since the late 80's and early 90's and i get crap for that as well...from guess who...yep other bass guys that spent 4 times as much on their rig...it's stupid
Being a Biker i also see Harley guys coming down hard on guys that buy Sportsters...same argument....buy a REAL Harley....and nobody else seems to care except the guys that spent another 8,000 for a bike with the same emblem on the tank
in the end it a chunk of wood with magnets and metal bolted to it....they will all get the job done....and in my case i'll use the extra $400.00 to $600.00 towards another purchase...
to each his own
we are supposed to be a brotherhood and yet we seem to delight in tearing each other down based on what we play
not much different from the persecution seen between races and religions if you ask me.....all of it stupid....
off to band practice!!
I also was raised In Texas and was always told it was polite not to bring either topic into polite company
however the two topics have indeed dictated and steered the entire history of mankind, and effects all of us across the board in one way or another...either positive or negative...including the bass player looking to buy a Fender
but again i'm done pontificating.....and Jimmy is right i don't normally do it here...but there are a few subjects that instantly push my button and cause my knee to jerk
if anyone was offended i apologize but can only add.....
Play what you like and Like what you play
Click "My Talkbass," then scroll down to "buddy/ignore lists" in the control panel. I'd advise against blocking Snakeman over this, though. He's usually pretty good and helpful. I can give you a whole huge list of people who are more worthy of blocking
Thanks for the help, and I'll take your advise.
For the most part, raised, and still live in Texas. We all have bad days.
No need to apologize! I was mostly asking for future reference for those that make a habit of it.Have a great band practice!
