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I think Fender is seriously crazy!

Has everyone vented (me included) and are we back on the original OP yet? Now what were we talking about? Oh yeah. We all like what we play and are proud of it. I doubt anyone has changed any opinions. ESP, MIM Fender and any other bass are all fine instruments. If we like them, we play them. If we don't, well we don't. Fender's pricing structure is what it is. If we don't want to pay that much, we buy something else.
 
Okay, I'm going to give a serious response now. I'm even going to use italics and bold letters to show how serious I'm being.

From a marketing and psychological perspective, I think FMIC has, or had, consumers right where they wanted them, and it's all about tapping into our aspirations. I think the whole Fender thing is about creating, shaping, and meeting those aspirations. In fact, the whole marketing thing is about that.

This is exactly why auto dealers have a boutique model right in the middle of the showroom, or have a boutique model in production full-stop - it's there to excite and direct our aspirations. The brand can be boutique, and so it's worth associating ourselves with. We can't afford the top model, but we can afford something a bit cheaper. And maybe one day we hope we can afford something a bit nicer. Think about the Ford Mustang line.

For years, the 'common wisdom' in bass/guitar world has been that, for instance, MIA beats MIM beats Squier. When we bought our first Squier (perhaps conveniently packed in a starter's pack), we then aspired to a 'real' Fender. When we couldn't buy an American Fender, we bought a Mexican Fender. Close enough, right? Well, for some, yes. But there was still a decent chunk of us who still aspired to an American Fender. At the MIA level, a big segment gets off the train happy, but a few stay on, aspiring for a CS or a fancy RI - something that's just a bit more different from everyone else's MIA, just a little bit more boutique (and, importantly, recognizably so).

At some point, Fender probably realised that they were losing too many people at the slightly lower rungs (MIM), and decided to create products we could continue to aspire to owning, but could realistically do so. Enter Roadworn, Classic 50s/70s, etc. These are all just a little bit more 'boutique' than a MIM Standard - The RW, IMO, is pure genius - how many people aspire to have a beaten up Fender with mojo? Probably a lot. It might not be 'real', but it looks real enough from a distance. Vain creatures we are.

But what about the people who still couldn't afford anything with 'Fender' on the headstock, and so went on to a different brand after their Affinity had served its purpose? Well, the CV and VM line were created to fill that gap. They're clearly different from the Affinity line, and only a small step up in price - and they're selling truckloads. Was it part of the Fender plan to let so many customers off at the CV/VM level? I don't know, but the new Squier models have certainly got people questioning whether it's worth it (for them) to continue to aspire to a 'real' Fender. And there's enough of us gushing about Squiers on TB to help us feel satisfied with the basses.

Now, these basses might have measurable differences in quality, but that's mostly moot from the business perspective - the important thing is that enough people perceive and believe that the difference in price is justified, and therefore aspire to the 'higher' models. And let's not beat around the bush: when it comes to Fender there is a huge segment of musicians who are very self-conscious about the perceived status of their instrument - they feel better having an MIA Fender than they do 'just' having a Chinese Squier.

I think the reason these discussions get so heated is this issue of aspirations - guys who enjoy playing basses that happen to cost less don't like to be told their aspirations are stunted or misguided, while guys who like to play basses that happen to cost more don't like to be told their aspirations (and achievements) are actually hollow. When we have a made a choice to play certain basses and pay a certain amount, there's a lot of emotional investment going on as well. Whether we like it or not, what and how we consume forms a big part of the way we relate to one another and present ourselves to the world. Being told our modes of consumption are bonkers is a personal attack, and most of us won't like being attacked for who we are.

I agreed with this post 100%, and was kind of surprised no one else commented on it.
 
I'm reading a book on the histroy of elec bass guitars and when the P bass first came out it was $220 - about $1500 in todays money.

And you can still buy 'that' bass for 'that' money today.

We're just spoiled that you can buy a MIM for 1/3 and other playable basses for half that, and used for half again.
 
I agreed with this post 100%, and was kind of surprised no one else commented on it.

Nobody commented on it because it didn't propagate the nonsense and bashing that was already taking place around it. To be honest, I missed it but am glad you quoted it, because it pretty much makes both extremes of either camp look a bit immature and is well worded, thought provoking and intelligent....unlike 90% of what's already been posted in this thread.
 
Nobody commented on it because it didn't propagate the nonsense and bashing that was already taking place around it. To be honest, I missed it but am glad you quoted it, because it pretty much makes both extremes of either camp look a bit immature and is well worded, thought provoking and intelligent....unlike 90% of what's already been posted in this thread.


Thanks for the kind words! I was a bit disappointed at the the direction this thread took because I think there's an interesting (and fresh) discussion to be had about the issue, but it seems not too many are interested in taking the time to do that.
 
I, as a business owner; was simply trying to state why i thought prices are going up across the board on many models...

again my opinion

i'll be the first to admit I'm totally biased when it comes to unions simply because of my personal headaches and experiences with them, and what the personally cost me as a business man in America. Having to deal with them made me have to raise the cost of my product by 20%...a cost i had no choice but to pass on the the american consumer.

when i went to BUY a Fender i tried every model available to me at my local stores and in the end i went home with a MIM, as it offered me the best bang for my money in terms of fit and finish as well as cosmetics.

And I for one get really really sick and tired of others players coming down on me for not buying a "REAL" Fender it's really stupid...

When i'm out at the local bar nobody cares what i play except other bass players...a fact i find quite funny

been playing Hartke amps since the late 80's and early 90's and i get crap for that as well...from guess who...yep other bass guys that spent 4 times as much on their rig...it's stupid

Being a Biker i also see Harley guys coming down hard on guys that buy Sportsters...same argument....buy a REAL Harley....and nobody else seems to care except the guys that spent another 8,000 for a bike with the same emblem on the tank

in the end it a chunk of wood with magnets and metal bolted to it....they will all get the job done....and in my case i'll use the extra $400.00 to $600.00 towards another purchase...

to each his own

we are supposed to be a brotherhood and yet we seem to delight in tearing each other down based on what we play

not much different from the persecution seen between races and religions if you ask me.....all of it stupid....

off to band practice!!
I don't get involved with politics or economics but your views on bass gear I agree with 100%.

I told this story before here years ago .

I had cash in hand to buy my first MIA Fender P bass.
I went to our best music store and finally it came down to three basses.
A new Highway 1 (first model no Badass)
A like new just traded in year old MIA 06'
Or a new MIM classic 50's P bass.

I played those three basses for two hours thru every amp there. I really wanted a MIA ..really it was what I wanted all for that MIA on the headstock.

In the end the MIM won, hands down the best of the three. It was a better sounding bass with equal build quality to me. Any differences in the builds did not justify the cost anyways.

Now I knew the MIM was best so I asked the weary salesman who heard we wank on the forever what he thought.
He said you know I agree that classic rocks and I'm not surprised. We are selling more of them to guys like you who think they need a MIA but take the MIM's, save cash and get a bass that sounds maybe better and is built just as well.

For weeks after I kept thinking I made a mistake buying that MIM since I really wanted a MIA had to have it. But every time I played that MIM I knew had the right one.
I have found others basses like that one thru the years. Like I had said I have owned quite a few MIA's since them with 4 being vintage ( CBS) I also once drank the kool aid..not no more...but that's me.
 
I don't get involved with politics or economics but your views on bass gear I agree with 100%.

I told this story before here years ago .

I had cash in hand to buy my first MIA Fender P bass.
I went to our best music store and finally it came down to three basses.
A new Highway 1 (first model no Badass)
A like new just traded in year old MIA 06'
Or a new MIM classic 50's P bass.

I played those three basses for two hours thru every amp there. I really wanted a MIA ..really it was what I wanted all for that MIA on the headstock.

In the end the MIM won, hands down the best of the three. It was a better sounding bass with equal build quality to me. Any differences in the builds did not justify the cost anyways.

Now I knew the MIM was best so I asked the weary salesman who heard we wank on the forever what he thought.
He said you know I agree that classic rocks and I'm not surprised. We are selling more of them to guys like you who think they need a MIA but take the MIM's, save cash and get a bass that sounds maybe better and is built just as well.

For weeks after I kept thinking I made a mistake buying that MIM since I really wanted a MIA had to have it. But every time I played that MIM I knew had the right one.
I have found others basses like that one thru the years. Like I had said I have owned quite a few MIA's since them with 4 being vintage ( CBS) I also once drank the kool aid..not no more...but that's me.

Cool story bro.
 
bassbully, Fender doesn't care which of their basses you buy, just that you buy a Fender. So, I think you still drank the kool aid. ;)

Also, according to the OP, those classic series basses are too expensive, so it must be that you really got ripped off. ;)

Then again, maybe you just bought the bass that you liked the best, which is what most of us tend to do. Why, oh why, does anyone care how much that particular bass happens to cost?
 
bassbully, Fender doesn't care which of their basses you buy, just that you buy a Fender. So, I think you still drank the kool aid. ;)

Also, according to the OP, those classic series basses are too expensive, so it must be that you really got ripped off. ;)

Then again, maybe you just bought the bass that you liked the best, which is what most of us tend to do. Why, oh why, does anyone care how much that particular bass happens to cost?

I always play Fenders and this was the first time I wanted a MIA. I sold off all the Fenders and replaced them with older MIJ Squiers and E series Squiers until I sold out. Today I own one lowly E series MIK Squier and its rad.

Back when I bought the classic it was like $600, the highway was $700ish the MIA almost $900 so it was savings then.
 
I got bashed once for owning a mim at church. A church! Just because that other kid had an mia who probably didn't even buy it himself didn't give him the right to look down on me for owning an mim that I bought used with my hard earned money working at a fast food place.

So he and I did a bass battle. I thought he was gonna be good but he wasn't. The game changer was when I used geddy lees flamenco technique. He was stunned. I won. Didn't even say anything to him and walked away with my beautiful mim in my arms.

I hate spoiled kids. Rant over
 
I got bashed once for owning a mim at church. A church! Just because that other kid had an mia who probably didn't even buy it himself didn't give him the right to look down on me for owning an mim that I bought used with my hard earned money working at a fast food place.

So he and I did a bass battle. I thought he was gonna be good but he wasn't. The game changer was when I used geddy lees flamenco technique. He was stunned. I won. Didn't even say anything to him and walked away with my beautiful mim in my arms.

I hate spoiled kids. Rant over

How am I 30 and have never heard of a bass battle before? I didn't know music was a competitive sport.
 
I got bashed once for owning a mim at church. A church! Just because that other kid had an mia who probably didn't even buy it himself didn't give him the right to look down on me for owning an mim that I bought used with my hard earned money working at a fast food place.

So he and I did a bass battle. I thought he was gonna be good but he wasn't. The game changer was when I used geddy lees flamenco technique. He was stunned. I won. Didn't even say anything to him and walked away with my beautiful mim in my arms.

I hate spoiled kids. Rant over

Did you win his MIA as the spoils of your conquest? Because if you didn't, what was the point? He still has a MIA that he didn't buy himself, and you still have a MIM that you did. Next time he mouths off tell him to put his bass where his mouth is.
 
I always play Fenders and this was the first time I wanted a MIA. I sold off all the Fenders and replaced them with older MIJ Squiers and E series Squiers until I sold out. Today I own one lowly E series MIK Squier and its rad.

Back when I bought the classic it was like $600, the highway was $700ish the MIA almost $900 so it was savings then.

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you played an MIA Fender??? - I ask, because IMO(and others), Fender is putting out some of the best instruments they ever have - and have really upped their game since '08... Even if you have no intention of buying, check one out if you can - I'm sincerely interested in what you have to say about it... I'm kinda wondering if your opinions were formed during some of Fender's "not so great" years...


- georgestrings
 
Did the dude disappear afterwards in a puff of smoke, only then tipping you off that you'd had a musical dual with the Devil...now finding that you're like Charlie Daniels, and Ralph Macchio combined, but playing bass?

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