Steve Harris bass: 70's , original pickup replaced, original bridge replaced, original pickguard replaced, original finish replaced, volume/tone replaced, fender decal gone... A bass like that does not cost much money so base on the statement that the more the value the best the bass it is then Steve's bass falls under the category of crappy. my point is: Its the player who give some value to a bass and even more, it is the player who make a bass sound great. My apologies if I hurt your feelings...By the way, I owned a MIA P and a MIM RW both are equally great.
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I think Fender is seriously crazy!
- Thread starter FishDub
- Start date
Steve Harris bass: 70's , original pickup replaced, original bridge replaced, original pickguard replaced, original finish replaced, volume/tone replaced, fender decal gone... A bass like that does not cost much money so base on the statement that the more the value the best the bass it is then Steve's bass falls under the category of crappy. my point is: Its the player who give some value to a bass and even more, it is the player who make a bass sound great. My apologies if I hurt your feelings...By the way, I owned a MIA P and a MIM RW both are equally great.
I would add that flaws in the bass are not directly linked to their list price either.
I think we are on the same side of the argument, you've expressed this very well. I have a MIM jazz that is fun to play and the two things I changed were basically cosmetic and cheap (tort guard and vintage threaded barrel bridge). I've played loads of Fenders (from the most expensive) to Squire Affinitys and have found good and bad, yet the good and bad isn't simply dictated by price. Putting hundreds of dollars into a bass of any price point is up to the owner and it's their investment. I think everything after that is personal opinion.
Rat's..... I had all kind of witty things to say here but then thought..who the hell cares. I'm going Christmas shopping and getting a beer.
Guess my I need to rethink my TB priorities?
Guess my I need to rethink my TB priorities?
When you use the drunks at the bar as a measuring stick, you will play for drunks at the bar your whole life.
Really? Hummm....that is really all I have ever played for. Learn something new everyday.
Really? Hummm....that is really all I have ever played for. Learn something new everyday.
Just sayin'...
- georgestrings
Sorry...wasn't trying to bum you out or anything. No guarantee you'll get out of the bars even if you don't use the drunks as a measuring stick, but it's sure you won't if that's what you aim for.Really? Hummm....that is really all I have ever played for. Learn something new everyday.
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,348
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
I play bass for two reasons.
1) I enjoy it
2) Others enjoy it
They're both great feelings. But I'll pick the bass I enjoy best, because no matter if they're the drunks at the bar, or the drunks at a black tie formal event, or an outdoor festival or even the State Trooper's Summer BBQ...I'm still the one playing it.
I too have had enough gig money in the past to buy some really nice instruments. I don't feel bad about doing it, and the people who usually cry 'snob' are usually the ones snobbing it up themselves...
Still, Fender can sell an 800$ Mexican bass if they want...as long as people will buy it. And obviously they are. I feel like maybe Fender has a better handle on their market than a bunch of random bass players on the internet.
I have yet to have ANY bass company build a stock bass that i did not modify in some shape form or fashion regardless of the price point simply because my own personal aesthetic..
take this for example:
I wanted a natural bass with P/J set up and i wanted maple on maple with black blocks that also had a "P" nut width instead of a "J" nut width....(FTR That's a MIM Neck on a Indonesian VM body that i routed to accept the Bridge pup....Gotoh High Mass 201 (as i have NEVER been able to properly intonate a stock Fender bridge to my liking EVER) Bill Lawrence pups and a stacked CTS volume/tone pot, CTS Blend pot, orange drop cap, and a switchcraft jack and strung with DR SUN Beams)
would it have been easier to start from scratch...probably, however Fender does make all these things available in various models over various platforms...and it was cheaper in the long run to CANNIBALIZE from various platforms to create what i personally wanted in a bass...
fortunately for me i know how to dress, level, crown, and file and also route and wire...
and in my 30+ years of playing i have yet to touch, see, or Feel a Fender art any price point whether it be MIJ, MIM, MIC, MII, that didn't have an issue or two... (MY Personal EXPERIENCE)
Which is the main reason i mostly play ESP
and it seems to me the only people that give a rat's behind what we play.... is other players...
American Made Fenders are expensive because of unions....plain and simple they are mostly responsible for running manufacturing jobs out of the country and into other foreign markets, and the high cost of transportation, storage, etc. and this is mostly true with all "AMERICAN" made items. We are no longer competitive in the world Market (except for Alcohol and tobacco)
your going to put down (insult) a weekend Warrior who has a mortgage, two cars a 2.2 kids and a dog simply for playing and MIM....when he can't justify and extra $600.00 to $800.00 for the "American" made version.
To somebody like me that's 3 to 4 months worth of Gas in my tank, Two months worth of groceries, 6 months worth of electric Bills..etc, etc, etc...
I think that you guys that look down on somebody for playing an instrument that wasn't made in America should get a life and quit worrying about what your fellow bass players are fingering...
and again for What it is worth IMHO and IMO and PERSONAL experience i have yet to meet a Fender at any price point regardless of origin that can hold a candle to a Japanese made ESP....which is why i own 5 of them....
and two Fender products one made in Indonesia the other in Mexico....If is spend 1,000.00 plus on a bass you can be damn sure it will say ESP on the Headstock....lol
take this for example:
I wanted a natural bass with P/J set up and i wanted maple on maple with black blocks that also had a "P" nut width instead of a "J" nut width....(FTR That's a MIM Neck on a Indonesian VM body that i routed to accept the Bridge pup....Gotoh High Mass 201 (as i have NEVER been able to properly intonate a stock Fender bridge to my liking EVER) Bill Lawrence pups and a stacked CTS volume/tone pot, CTS Blend pot, orange drop cap, and a switchcraft jack and strung with DR SUN Beams)
would it have been easier to start from scratch...probably, however Fender does make all these things available in various models over various platforms...and it was cheaper in the long run to CANNIBALIZE from various platforms to create what i personally wanted in a bass...
fortunately for me i know how to dress, level, crown, and file and also route and wire...
and in my 30+ years of playing i have yet to touch, see, or Feel a Fender art any price point whether it be MIJ, MIM, MIC, MII, that didn't have an issue or two... (MY Personal EXPERIENCE)
Which is the main reason i mostly play ESP
and it seems to me the only people that give a rat's behind what we play.... is other players...
American Made Fenders are expensive because of unions....plain and simple they are mostly responsible for running manufacturing jobs out of the country and into other foreign markets, and the high cost of transportation, storage, etc. and this is mostly true with all "AMERICAN" made items. We are no longer competitive in the world Market (except for Alcohol and tobacco)
your going to put down (insult) a weekend Warrior who has a mortgage, two cars a 2.2 kids and a dog simply for playing and MIM....when he can't justify and extra $600.00 to $800.00 for the "American" made version.
To somebody like me that's 3 to 4 months worth of Gas in my tank, Two months worth of groceries, 6 months worth of electric Bills..etc, etc, etc...
I think that you guys that look down on somebody for playing an instrument that wasn't made in America should get a life and quit worrying about what your fellow bass players are fingering...
and again for What it is worth IMHO and IMO and PERSONAL experience i have yet to meet a Fender at any price point regardless of origin that can hold a candle to a Japanese made ESP....which is why i own 5 of them....
and two Fender products one made in Indonesia the other in Mexico....If is spend 1,000.00 plus on a bass you can be damn sure it will say ESP on the Headstock....lol
I have yet to have ANY bass company build a stock bass that i did not modify in some shape form or fashion regardless of the price point simply because my own personal aesthetic..
take this for example:
I wanted a natural bass with P/J set up and i wanted maple on maple with black blocks that also had a "P" nut width instead of a "J" nut width....
would it have been easier to start from scratch...probably, however Fender does make all these things available in various models over various platforms...and it was cheaper in the long run to CANNIBALIZE from various platforms to create what i personally wanted in a bass...
fortunately for me i know how to dress, level, crown, and file and also route and wire...
and in my 30+ years of playing i have yet to touch, see, or Feel a Fender art any price point whether it be MIJ, MIM, MIC, MII, that didn't have an issue or two... (MY Personal EXPERIENCE)
Which is the main reason i mostly play ESP
and it seems to me the only people that give a rat's behind what we play.... is other players...
American Made Fenders are expensive because of unions....plain and simple they are mostly responsible for running manufacturing jobs out of the country and into other foreign markets, and the high cost of transportation, storage, etc. and this is mostly true with all "AMERICAN" made items. We are no longer competitive in the world Market (except for Alcohol and tobacco)
your going to put down (insult) a weekend Warrior who has a mortgage, two cars a 2.2 kids and a dog simply for playing and MIM....when he can't justify and extra $600.00 to $800.00 for the "American" made version.
To somebody like me that's 3 to 4 months worth of Gas in my tank, Two months worth of groceries, 6 months worth of electric Bills..etc, etc, etc...
I think that you guys that look down on somebody for playing an instrument that wasn't made in America should get a life and quit worrying about what your fellow bass players are fingering...
and again for What it is worth IMHO and IMO and PERSONAL experience i have yet to meet a Fender at any price point regardless of origin that can hold a candle to a Japanese made ESP....which is why i own 5 of them....
and two Fender products one made in Indonesia the other in Mexico....If is spend 1,000.00 plus on a bass you can be damn sure it will say ESP on the Headstock....lol
Unions. The convenient scapegoat. I wasn't aware of Fender being a union company. I won't look it up though, it's easier to pontificate without facts.
Lol regardless of whether they are or not you can be pretty damn sure that the guys hauling them and or warehousing them "are"...the cost of which they Pass on the the consumer...
and Unions are the main reason that many companies have pulled out their production facilities and set them up in other countries....because it's cheaper to move, re-tool, re-train, and ship back the end product for consumption.... than pay the average "self entitled" American worker to complain about how much money they are not making...
Unions had their place in time....but they have abused their power...and are as antiquated as the typewriter...<-----(In case you missed it this is a personal opinion)
I buy american when i can...but when i can buy a better made Japanese produced product at 3/4 the price...you know where my money is going...
also My opinion!!!! that perhaps if Fender basses were not produced in the biggest left run litigious nanny state in the unioin...they might also be a tad cheaper
You bought a gorgeous, one of a kind instrument that was exactly what you wanted from a respected (albeit maybe not as well known as others) luthier. I could never call that "snobbery".
Now, if you continually went around and told people that their cheap basses sucked and your bass was soooo much better, etc, etc I could see someone calling you a snob, but I haven't seen you do that on here.
Personally I'd love to be in your position if I could afford it.
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,348
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
I never understood why people equate country of origin and quality anyway. It makes no sense. Companies from all countries can make good or crappy products. And due to labor costs, its actually EASIER to make a nicer product in some other countries. Although, I don't want anyone to construe that as me being anti-union. I happen to like people earning a living wage given the cost of living in that specific country.
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,348
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
Thanks! That bass is the product of lots of gigs, from 200$ bar gigs to 3000$ wedding gigs. Its unique. There are no others like it. There is also not a production bass of any kind that has the same features, which is really the end reason to go custom, or even 'high end'. Sorry, but things like the neck shape or its geometry don't exist in Fenderland. I play it at just as many 200$ bar gigs and other gigs as I did any of my Fenders.
Back when, I used to stump up and down for people to try Fender Japan basses...to me they were always a great price for a quality instrument. Now they have less coming out of Japan, and their 'mid-range instruments' are out of Mexico, much like their lower cost instruments. It seems to confuse people that they could create both 300$ instruments and 1000$ instruments in the same place.
I don't get what signature bass offerings have to do with the quality of a particular instrument. I own four post-CBS Fender basses, and they're all fine instruments. One is even a signature model.
sometimes signature models offer color and neck combos and/or accessories that many standard models don't....which is why some of us buy them regardless of who's signature is on the headstock 
Nobody is putting you down. Nobody thinks less of you because you play a MIM. Lay off the drama please.
At the same time, quit making up **** for the sake of your argument. Fender isn't unionized, never has been.
