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I think I see a pattern - am I crazy?
- Thread starter jazzmonkey
- Start date
I've met this guy before ... he didn't look the same, but same guy. I was too nice and kept gigging with him after some "questionable dealings". I didn't get screwed again, but other people did. Eventually I had enough even being associated with him, and walked away.
Never felt so good about any decision I've made in the music business!
Never felt so good about any decision I've made in the music business!
Thanks everyone for the support and the great advice. I definitely appreciate it. I needed to make sure that I wasn't seeing something that wasn't there.
It was a favor at first. I knew that we were going to get paid whatever the door brought in, plus it was the Friday before Christmas and it was pretty dead at this place. What I forgot to mention in the first place was that out of the people that did show up for the show, most of them were my friends who came to see me play.
I had to drive out of the place, so I didn't drink more than 4 beers the entire night (5 hours). He says he paid me like 2 weekends later when we were at his house for rehearsing/jamming. Funny thing is, if it was folded in such a specific way, it stands to reason that I would remember that also, which I do not.
The thing is that he is easily the best player in the area that I've heard, and playing with him is inspiring. I have noticed that I have become a better player since I've started jamming with him. He's even really humble about his playing as well, definitely not an egomaniac. He has done a lot of networking, and has gigs booked at several places all the way through December of next year, and can easily get more. We are actually working on putting together our own thing. The drummer for that arrangement comes from the other band I'm in, and he and I are pretty much a package deal. If I walk, he walks. I have been keeping this to myself since it happened b/c I didnt' want to create any problems. I just told the drummer about it today. I guess we'll just to see what arises now that I have a second set of eyes/ears to back me up.
He's not a bad guy, I would have never expected this type of situation to arise when dealing with him. He always lets me crash at his place on the couch whenever we jam, and he has invited me over for dinner a few times. I just want to be fair here.
I'm not going to press the issue about the money over the last show, like I said, I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt. I am going to approach this with wary caution from here out. I think it may be unreasonable to ask for the money up front, but I will be on him like glue after the next show is over, which is at the end of this month. If he makes it known to me that he's paying me less than the rest of the band for any reason at all, I'm gonna let him know then and there that I'm done with him. He's definitely on his last chance with me because it's not gonna be shame on me.
Thanks again everyone for the support and great advice.
It was a favor at first. I knew that we were going to get paid whatever the door brought in, plus it was the Friday before Christmas and it was pretty dead at this place. What I forgot to mention in the first place was that out of the people that did show up for the show, most of them were my friends who came to see me play.
I had to drive out of the place, so I didn't drink more than 4 beers the entire night (5 hours). He says he paid me like 2 weekends later when we were at his house for rehearsing/jamming. Funny thing is, if it was folded in such a specific way, it stands to reason that I would remember that also, which I do not.
The thing is that he is easily the best player in the area that I've heard, and playing with him is inspiring. I have noticed that I have become a better player since I've started jamming with him. He's even really humble about his playing as well, definitely not an egomaniac. He has done a lot of networking, and has gigs booked at several places all the way through December of next year, and can easily get more. We are actually working on putting together our own thing. The drummer for that arrangement comes from the other band I'm in, and he and I are pretty much a package deal. If I walk, he walks. I have been keeping this to myself since it happened b/c I didnt' want to create any problems. I just told the drummer about it today. I guess we'll just to see what arises now that I have a second set of eyes/ears to back me up.
He's not a bad guy, I would have never expected this type of situation to arise when dealing with him. He always lets me crash at his place on the couch whenever we jam, and he has invited me over for dinner a few times. I just want to be fair here.
I'm not going to press the issue about the money over the last show, like I said, I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt. I am going to approach this with wary caution from here out. I think it may be unreasonable to ask for the money up front, but I will be on him like glue after the next show is over, which is at the end of this month. If he makes it known to me that he's paying me less than the rest of the band for any reason at all, I'm gonna let him know then and there that I'm done with him. He's definitely on his last chance with me because it's not gonna be shame on me.
Thanks again everyone for the support and great advice.
If you don:t remember if someone handed you 40 bucks, it must mean you have so much money it doesn't matter. So the money is not an issue.
I think you should continue to let him play you and give him the benefit of the doubt. Just get into all that inspiration.
I think you should continue to let him play you and give him the benefit of the doubt. Just get into all that inspiration.
My guy wasn't a bad guy either, and one of the last gigs we did was with a killer 7-piece band he brought together... But he has burned almost everyone I know who's worked with him in one way or another...
Frustrating to see talented people who are their own worst enemy.
Frustrating to see talented people who are their own worst enemy.
I certainly don't have that kind of money. I make the ends meet, but I would remember getting 40 bucks. I'm 99% certain that he never gave me the cash. He was determined to convince me though, so that's where the 1% comes in. Believe me, we argued about it for a good 5 minutes on the phone, and I went as far as to look through every article of clothing, gear bag, and piece of furniture that I own, as well as the furniture at his place.
I'm gonna give him enough rope to hang himself so I don't look like the bad guy, he can do it all himself.
I'm gonna give him enough rope to hang himself so I don't look like the bad guy, he can do it all himself.
How's this:
Agree to play the gig, but bring along a couple of friends.
BIG friends, and make sure they're there with you when it's payout time.
And if he say "I'll get you next time" just smile and say "No, now is good".
Or just cut your losses and tell him to pound sand since he can't be bothered to pay you, and use words that make your meaning perfectly clear.
This guy needs a reality check ASAP.
Agree to play the gig, but bring along a couple of friends.
BIG friends, and make sure they're there with you when it's payout time.
And if he say "I'll get you next time" just smile and say "No, now is good".
Or just cut your losses and tell him to pound sand since he can't be bothered to pay you, and use words that make your meaning perfectly clear.
This guy needs a reality check ASAP.
Dude! While he may be an excellent musician, I wouldn't continue dealing with him! It's obvious this issue bothers you and it needs to brought to his attention immediately! There's NO WAY I would play another gig with him until this issue was resolved to my satisfaction.
Man, that is unforgivable right there. I can understand the sentiment.Thank you for posting that! One of the most inspiring things I've read in a while.
Walk away. There are probably lots of people ahead of you in line for the money that this guy owes them. You don't need to give a reason.
Whatever happened to rock and roll?
That guy needs to bleed.
He will NEVER have your services again, either.
END OF STORY.
That guy needs to bleed.
He will NEVER have your services again, either.
END OF STORY.
Walk away from this with some dignity.
There seems little doubt that you are being played. So a little life rule for you.
By allowing anyone to play you in any way, but particularly in respect of cash, you actually reinforce the idea in the other person that it´s ok, and they will do it again, and again, and again until such times as you say no more. At this point any fallout becomes, in thier eyes, your fault.
In fact, it is your own fault because you allowed them to behave in that way unchallenged from the get go.
There seems little doubt that you are being played. So a little life rule for you.
By allowing anyone to play you in any way, but particularly in respect of cash, you actually reinforce the idea in the other person that it´s ok, and they will do it again, and again, and again until such times as you say no more. At this point any fallout becomes, in thier eyes, your fault.
In fact, it is your own fault because you allowed them to behave in that way unchallenged from the get go.
Not much I could do about it being "my fault" considering he insisted that I must have lost the money somewhere. I honestly don't think that I could have done anything, short of threatening him in some way, to change that fact, and even that would have likely been trite. I hardly think I allowed him to play me, what was I supposed to do, rob the guy? I'm no thug, sorry. Nothing I can do about it until next time, if there is one.
Besides, the guy is supposed to be my "bro", how was I supposed to know he was gonna play me? He had been letting me crash at his place for several weeks in a row, having me for dinner, and just being quite amiable. Even my drummer was surprised when I told him today about the whole thing.
Sure, hindsight is always 20/20 and had I known then what I know now, the first thing out of my mouth everytime we had correspondence would have been, "where's my money?"
Besides, the guy is supposed to be my "bro", how was I supposed to know he was gonna play me? He had been letting me crash at his place for several weeks in a row, having me for dinner, and just being quite amiable. Even my drummer was surprised when I told him today about the whole thing.
Sure, hindsight is always 20/20 and had I known then what I know now, the first thing out of my mouth everytime we had correspondence would have been, "where's my money?"
He screwed you out of your money and lied to your face about it. How is he not a bad guy?
I can see how this would have taken you by surprise, given the way he had been treating you. Now you are aware of how he may act, and you have a plan to deal with whatever happens. Just don't let it keep happening... Good luck with this!
