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i think i'm becoming the ***hole

nun lover

nun lover

Jun 7, 2005
541
132
Overland Park, KS
#1
my band has been together for about 5 months. we have 8 original songs, have played one show, and want to record a cd. our drummer is the oldest and most experienced, followed by the singer and myself. the guitarist has never been in a band before but he's doing fine.

anyways, to get to the point, i've been gradually mentioning details that could use some work so our sound is more polished before we record anything. i don't like criticizing my bandmates, especially when i'm the only one that says anything, but i keep noticing things that should change. lately if i bring it up, i get replies like "it's your world, we just live in it".

most recently, after listening to a video of our live show and listening to some rough rehearsal recordings, the guitarist seems to hit his strings too hard. hard enough to change the pitch of the note. it's painfully obvious to me but no one else has said anything. i really don't want to say anything with the risk of him (or them) interpreting it as a lack of respect for his playing or something. i'm just doing what i can to make everything as a whole sound as good as it can. any advice?
 
#2
I've been in this spot before, and its hard. I basically told my guitar player, look, you're playing out of time and out of tune. You can take that negatively, or use it as advice because its true. He then proceeded to tell our drummer he wanted to throw his guitar at me, but soon got over it and improved drastically.

Long story short, tread lightly. But it sounds like he isn't very experienced, much like mine was. Best of luck, it isn't easy.
 
#4
Is there a bandleader or musical director? If so, and it's you, tell him what you are hearing and if it needs fixing, ask him to work on minimising it.

If there's a leader/director, and it's not you, tell them your concerns one to one and let them resolve it.

If noone is leading or directing the group musically, nominate someone, now, get consensus on what's right now, and write it down and distribute to all, right now! :)

(I'm guessing currently you don't have one, so...)

Muso's are naturally critical of recordings, especially our own. Consider having some non-musicians listen to it, or a couple of band guys outside your group that you trust will tell you like it is regardless.

Oh and IME, if it's not an issue to the other guys, and you're not the bandleader, it's not your problem to resolve and getting (forcing yourself) into that space can tar you with a brush and cause unnecessary conflict. Decide how long you can hang, give sufficient warning before so people can choose to change, sufficient notice after so they can recover from the lineup change, and good luck finding that which fits you when they don't anymore :)
 
#8
I would listen to the recordings together and then ask everyone for their opinions on what can be improved. You could say, "let's try with the guitar player playing less aggressively and see how it sounds", etc. You might be surprised by the result.

If everyone else is happy with the the way the songs are being played and you are not, it might be time to find another band, otherwise you will be looked upon as the problem rather than the solution.
 
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#10
EddiePlaysBass said:
If you are going to confront him about it, do not do it in front of the others. My 2 cents.
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I think its best to actually talk about it with every single bandmate there. IMEs, even if one person is missing from the convo about the issue, the initial responses could be different than if everyone was there.

For some reason it seems like everyone wants to stay neutral to the situation until they can determine a majority vote and then they jump on the wagon.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with saying anything to eachother individually. It is kind of a rough area to touch :hmm:

great posts and advice here too.
 
#11
MNAirHead said:
8 songs... 5 months.. 1 show

Thsi thread should be about your saintly patience - I'd been gone a long time ago.
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the singer and drummer are in other established bands that are a higher priority than this one, so often the weekly rehearsals get cancelled so they can do their other gigs. makes for slow progress. otherwise, musically they're a good fit and i feel grateful to have them after the endless horrible tryouts that came prior.

the drummer is a well-known local guy with a good rep, as well as a radio producer. his experience and networking is beneficial to us when he's available, so yeah i'm patient.

also, everyone sort of looks to him for the final say in band matters. i guess because he's older and respected no one doubts his decisions. in that case i guess i could bring up some things to him and let him do the unpleasant task. thanks for the replies.
 
#12
tsverrir said:
It's better to get things out in the open before you start throwing money and time into recording something you know you're never going to be happy with.
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+1,000. Otherwise you're flushing your time and money down the terlit.

Make yourself open to feedback as well: "Guys, be honest, I can take it. Do you hear anything I should be doing differently?"
 
#13
I recently left a band because of a situation like this. Most of the other guys took my suggestions at face value and tried hard to improve the band, the songs, their performances, but one member did not cope well with criticism and would respond by justifying his performance in terms of whether his friends said he was any good, or by saying that people make mistakes and he wasn't going to be made to feel bad about making mistakes (he was making the same mistakes for a year...), actually called me a bully on a couple of occasions.

In the end I had to leave the band because it was either me or him, and I appeared to be the aggressive one purely because of how passive he was. The guy is apparently driving them crazy these days but they're all still too polite to boot him out. I miss that band too they had good songs and some of them are good friends.

Unfortunately someone's got to be the bad guy in a band otherwise nothing ever improves, and if that's you then you have my sympathy because nobody will appreciate you for it until you're gone.
 
#14
I gladly wear the black hat in my band, then again everyone in the project will put it on occasionally. We all understand that if one is critiquing another, it's not personal and it's not because they are a horrible musician, it's just because we feel they should approach something differently.

The good thing it that we usually are willing to accommodate the others ideas to see if it works in the context of the song. The one thing none of us are able to do, is bite our tongues if we hear something that doesn't sit right with us.

Can it get heated? Sure, we're all very passionate about the project and sometimes it will become a very intense argument, because we all can hear or approach things in a slightly different way, yet it's always about the song/project and not the individual.

We're all super opinionated, but also respect each other enough to be open to suggestion. It's great because we always know where the others stand on something and resentments or dislikes never have a chance to fester.
 
#15
Well somebody has to say something unless you want the band to sound like crap. Since you heard an issue address it. If they cant deal with it they have might other issues with you. From what you have already said, this could be true.
 
#16
In many bands I have been in, I was frequently the only one to have "official" training in music (Classical, jazz, etc)..so my ears would always hear the common mistakes people would make. I would try to help, by pointing them out (and at the same time, offering help and suggestions).
When my remarks were met with "ok, i'll try it" or something else affirmative, then I knew I could work with them...and by god, I would! I would write out scales, chords, help them any way I could!

But if I was met with something like "It's your world and we just live in it"....then I realized the situation was hopeless, and I would leave the band.

I would leave because it was clear that it was a waste of time. If someone plays badly and does not seem to care...unless they are extremely lucky, they ain't going anywhere with their music! If they can't hear their mistakes, they ain't gonna make it in this business! And if they are not open to having someone who knows more then they do show them, then they cannot be worked with.

In this situation, my vote is you tell them adios. I don't think it is a matter of you being too picky, either. A musical mistake is a mistake, period.
 
#17
Is there a bandleader or musical director?
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I believe this position is colloquially known as the **hole, and the OP is taking that role, because nobody else will.

It's human nature. Someone has to be driving, even in a very small group. I'm the bandleader in my group because I write all the songs, lyrics, and do all the singing, and engineer the recordings, and about half the time I arrange the gigs. That thankfully is one thing we three will share amongst us -- sometimes the drummer gets us a gig, sometimes the guitarist, sometimes me.

8 songs... 5 months.. 1 show
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That is not unusual for a part-time group, especially an original band as the OP seems to indicate he is in. There are no tabs or recordings for the songs except for the ones the band comes up with.
 
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#19
I was on a recording session last night (engineering, not playing) where the band was sloppy as hell. They managed to get one decent song because they sat down and objectively talked it out instead of just insisting that they all were right. Some people just aren't good players. It is really, really hard to find good people to play with, between reliability, skill, and just being likable. I think the most critical thing you have to ask yourself is if these people are capable of taking your advice and doing something with it. If they either can't step up to the plate or they fight you on it, I think you're selling yourself short. As long as you're making it clear that you're trying to be constructive, it's really more on THEM to shape up and do it right. If they don't, find another band. I have been in many bands over the past couple of years that just haven't panned out for all sorts of depressing reasons. If you're well-trained as a musician and you really care, you have every right to be "picky."
 
#20
nun lover said:
i'm just doing what i can to make everything as a whole sound as good as it can. any advice?
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Well, the rest of your band should be looking to do what they can to improve your overall sound as well. If theyre not, they should be happy that you are.
I know how it goes though. I joined the band Im in now, but before that have always been the guy to start my own projects, so I was always actively looking to improve our sound. I joined my current band, but I ddint lose sight of those critical aspects to tighten things up. Anywhere I see a need for improvement I bring up to our bandleader, and if warrented, up to the band as a whole. Im often helping our bandleader when need be, and doing my best to help him lead the band effectively. If someone thinks Im an A-hole for it, then so be it. Id rather replace that person than be performing at a subpar level.
 

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