I think we should stop arguing about maple vs rosewood (see inside)

[Tom Crofts]

Wood. Which the strings still never touch.

So the fingerboard won't vibrate sympathetically when the string is vibrating against a small piece of metal set into it? And these vibrations won't be at all different depending on what wood it is?

Hmm...

 

[Showdown]

So the fingerboard won't vibrate sympathetically when the string is vibrating against a small piece of metal set into it? And these vibrations won't be at all different depending on what wood it is?

Hmm...

I never said that. The post I replied to talked about the feel of the strings on the wood. My post was accurate in that context.

If you read my other post you will see that I hear a slight difference between maple and rosewood. Not enough to matter however. The difference between, for example, TI flats and GHS Super Steel strings is so far greater that fingerboard wood doesn't matter much.

 

[alanbass1]

So the fingerboard won't vibrate sympathetically when the string is vibrating against a small piece of metal set into it? And these vibrations won't be at all different depending on what wood it is?

Hmm...

Yes they will. Also, in respect to feel, a persons technique will have a great bearing on how much a player feels the fingerboard. I use a lot of sideways vibrato and can definately feel the type of wood through the strings are moving against.

 

[Chasarms]

It strikes me that most maple fingerboards that I've seen have been finished along with the rest of the neck. Seems that I read somewhere that maple has to be finished to prevent warping.

OTOH, it seems that the majority of rosewood and ebony boards I've experienced have been unfinished.

I've taken the clear finish off of the board of fretless bass some years ago (it was too sticky), and it had a dramatic effect on the sound. The instrument lost a lot of it's "sheen". It makes me wonder whether added clear finish could affect sound of maple as to make it brighter, even on a fretted instrument.

Maple boards are finished mainly to prevent the discoloration of the blonde fingerboard. If you have ever seen a maple board that is blackened nasty looking, it is because the finish is worn off.

FWIW, in 20 years of playing and owning at least 30 basses, I have never heard any tonal differences that I would attribute to the wood of the fb.

 

[Tom Crofts]

I never said that. The post I replied to talked about the feel of the strings on the wood. My post was accurate in that context.

If you read my other post you will see that I hear a slight difference between maple and rosewood. Not enough to matter however. The difference between, for example, TI flats and GHS Super Steel strings is so far greater that fingerboard wood doesn't matter much.

Sorry if I misunderstood your post, I realise that it'll only be a tiny difference between f/board woods but I'm sure there is a difference nonetheless.

 

[KayCee]

Thanks for clarifying the reasons for finishing of maple boards.

Is it also your opinion that finishing a board has no effect on tone?

Maple boards are finished mainly to prevent the discoloration of the blonde fingerboard. If you have ever seen a maple board that is blackened nasty looking, it is because the finish is worn off.

FWIW, in 20 years of playing and owning at least 30 basses, I have never heard any tonal differences that I would attribute to the wood of the fb.

 

[Basshole]

Body woods can definitely affect tone.

Neck construction and woods can affect tone even more (this is why dead spots follow swapped necks around, NOT swapped bodies).

Rigid construction prevents dead spots, sheep tones, etc.

That said, the amount of wood in a fretboard lamination doesn't drastically affect the tone, therefore I agree with the basic concept presented here: Fretboard woods are relatively inconsequential to the tone of an instrument.

THAT said, I hate rosewood, as my damn fingernails always seem to dig in and get caught in it. Too fricken soft.

 

[BigMikeW]

THAT said, I hate rosewood, as my damn fingernails always seem to dig in and get caught in it. Too fricken soft.

LOL Why are your fingernails that long?

 

[Sippy]

Wood. Which the strings still never touch.

No but the wood reacts to you pressing down the strings. If the wood has nothing to do with it, why don't the major guitar companies such as fender, gibson, ibanez, yamaha etc make lightweight aluminum fingerboards? it would be a nice way to save on weight, and since the fact that fingerboards do not have to be wood. the alluminum will save on weight!
Also as you mentioned the fretless. different woods used on the fingerboard react differently to the strings, which once again proves my theory.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I disagree.

There is definitely a difference between my two Jazz basses (one Maple w/Alder and the other Rosewood w/Alder). The maple one is brighter and has more punch then the rosewood bass. And that's when they are not even pugged in! They both have the same strings on them. I tend to play slap more on the maple Jazz and finger style on the rosewood.

Yes, but how is it that you believe the fingerboard is responsible for the difference in tone?

Here's my favorite example: I own two Roscoe Beck V basses, both with serial numbers indicating 1997. Both have slightly flamed maple necks. These basses are identical in construction and materials. The only difference aside from a few small dings on one of them is the paint: one is shoreline gold, and the other is teal metallic. The gold one has noticeably brighter tone than the blue one, even when both are freshly strung with the same strings.

So: because the only difference is the paint, we must logically conclude that gold metallic paint imparts brighter tone than teal metallic paint. Or maybe not. Most if not all of us would disagree with this logic. What else could be responsible? Well, maybe it's the fact that wood is inconsistent in tonal response. One piece of alder will sound different than another... same is true for the maple used in the neck.

My alder/maple Sadowsky P5 is bright and snappy and sounds great for slapstyle. My ash/rosewood Lull P5 was bright and snappy and sounded great for slap. I could list more examples, but a bigger point is that small anecdotal samples such as this are not scientifically valid in any way because of the point made above: the natural variation of wood even within the same species. All the tap-testing in the world isn't going to eliminate that inconsistency.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Thanks for clarifying the reasons for finishing of maple boards.

Is it also your opinion that finishing a board has no effect on tone?

My hypothesis is that finished boards might reflect sound waves acoustically: that is, when playing a bass unplugged, certain frequencies (highs, IMO) will be reflected from the fingerboard back to the user. But these acoustic reflections are not sensed by the magnetic pickups. This is why playing a bass unplugged has very limited value: pickups are magnetic** rather than acoustic, so it's silly not to audition a bass through an amp. (**Exception would be low quality pickups that are microphonic.)

 

[Fuzzbass]

Really? More than strings or pickups?

That is pretty amazing. And I have to say, sounds false.

I don't mean to misquote Roger. I believe he was saying that of all the *wood* in a bass, fingerboard had the most effect on tone.

 

[KayCee]

No doubt that the tonal differences between rosewood and maple are subtle, and less significant than many other factors.

However, for anyone to say that the fingerboard has NO effect on an instrument's tone isn't considering that it is still a VITAL link in the tone chain from the strings to your ears.

Anyone that's ever heard a fretless bass with rosewood board, then "jaco-ed" with epoxy, knows that the fingerboard wood and finish CAN make a radical difference in sound.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Yeah, but I think we could demonstrate the concept relatively simply.

I've often thought it would be cool to take a shop like Sadowsky's that has many similar basses, record them all with a studio musician and fresh strings. Then after you get about 10 or 20 instruments recorded build a simple Flash application that will allow you to shuffle and listen to the samples and guess what woods & pickups they have. Then it could display your choices versus reality and do a bit of math and tell you how accurate you where. Not quite double blind but it should make clear we can't tell what wood is in a bass until we see it.

OIC - that test couldn't prove which component had what effect on tone, but it could prove what blindfolded listeners can or cannot discern. Brilliant!!

 

[Fuzzbass]

Anyone that's ever heard a fretless bass with rosewood board, then "jaco-ed" with epoxy, knows that the fingerboard wood and finish CAN make a radical difference in sound.

Very good point, but many of us - myself included - limit this debate to fretted instruments!

 

[KayCee]

BTW, shouldn't the title of this thread be changed to:

"I think we should START arguing about maple vs rosewood (see inside)"

 

[Fuzzbass]

No but the wood reacts to you pressing down the strings. If the wood has nothing to do with it, why don't the major guitar companies such as fender, gibson, ibanez, yamaha etc make lightweight aluminum fingerboards? it would be a nice way to save on weight, and since the fact that fingerboards do not have to be wood. the alluminum will save on weight!
Also as you mentioned the fretless. different woods used on the fingerboard react differently to the strings, which once again proves my theory.

Here are the real reasons why instruments don't have aluminum fingerboards:
1) No demand
2) More expensive (that's my guess, anyway)

 

[Geoff St. Germaine]

If the wood has nothing to do with it, why don't the major guitar companies such as fender, gibson, ibanez, yamaha etc make lightweight aluminum fingerboards? it would be a nice way to save on weight, and since the fact that fingerboards do not have to be wood. the alluminum will save on weight!

How would an aluminum fretboard reduce the weight of an instrument?

 

[Showdown]

Anyone that's ever heard a fretless bass with rosewood board, then "jaco-ed" with epoxy, knows that the fingerboard wood and finish CAN make a radical difference in sound.

That is because the string is vibrating against the wood. That is what gives fretless basses their unique sound. Fingerboard wood doesn't have the same dramatic effect on fretted basses.

 

[Sippy]

Here are the real reasons why instruments don't have aluminum fingerboards:
1) No demand
2) More expensive (that's my guess, anyway)

actually some basses and guitars do have aluminum fingerboards. The reason there is No demand is because it sounds like crap. If you ever see one; stop and play it and you will hear. It sounds horrible. Fernandes made a P-bass with an aluminum fingerboard. I played it and it sounded awful! There was one in a music shop down where I used to live (Coral Springs, Florida) and I was intrigued. I played it for a matter of seconds and couldn't stand the tone. I played another Fernandes, the same model just a wooden fingerboard and it sounded better (not great, but much better) Companies tried to do it, I really don't know why I dont' see how anybody can enjoy the sound. But the reason they didn't succeed is because it was nowhere near the quality of a wooden fingerboard. I'm sorry to say but I really do not understand anybody who feels the wood on the fingerboard has absolutely nothing to do with the way the bass plays (or feels...) Obviously the strings, electronics, and the way the neck is set makes a much bigger difference, but different woods on a fingerboard do sound and feel (minimally) different.