Ibanez sr2600 get the lowest action

[scottfeldstein]

Can you or someone else explain the logic of adjusting the truss rod first or is it just something someone once said is the ”correct” way to do it?

A quick Google search does not reveal the exact rationale behind it. But it is pretty clear that many sources indicate that it is a "foundational" adjustment upon which other adjustments rely. In my opinion I would guess that it's the one adjustment that you won't have to revisit based on subsequent adjustments. That is, if I set my neck relief where I want it, I probably won't need to revisit it because of something I do at the bridge. Not so the other way around. I could set my string heights at the bridge first but I may have to redo that adjustment if I do neck relief after it.

Perhaps someone here with more knowledge can shed further light on it.

 

[Jivve]

Btw, I took out the feeler gauges, my relief is even less than yours. Closer to 5 thousands of an inch (0.13 mm). Hard to measure these small values exactly, even with feeler gauges.

I stand by my superior way of getting super low action. You should try it, you will never go back to the archery bow that is 8 thousands of an inch.

 

[Alkaline1985]

I hace tried to set the neck flatter, around 0,3mm, but there is no improvement, i can not set E string height lower than 2,5mm with the Bridge without buzzing on the 10-11th fret (same with other strings).
Lower and higher frets are ok.

Of course for tapping or soft fingerstyle i could lower the action a little bit more, but if I play a little bit harder or a long note... There is this buzzing on those frets.

With 1/2 relief than before, there is not much improvement for me, same action in the 24th (even i feel that i have to pluck softer with fingerstyle).
For slap It feels better in the middle of the neck, where the action Its a bit lower than before.

Maybe i will need luthier assistance for leveling the frets.

 

[scottfeldstein]

I don't think five thousandths of an inch neck relief is doable on a five string bass. Not if you want the B string height below 6/64s.

I hace tried to set the neck flatter, around 0,3mm, but there is no improvement, i can not set E string height lower than 2,5mm with the Bridge without buzzing on the 10-11th fret (same with other strings).
Lower and higher frets are ok.

Of course for tapping or soft fingerstyle i could lower the action a little bit more, but if I play a little bit harder or a long note... There is this buzzing on those frets.

With 1/2 relief than before, there is not much improvement for me, same action in the 24th (even i feel that i have to pluck softer with fingerstyle).
For slap It feels better in the middle of the neck, where the action Its a bit lower than before.

Maybe i will need luthier assistance for leveling the frets.

So your neck relief is about 12 thou and you can't lower the E string even to 6/64ths of an inch? Are you confident you're measuring these correctly? If you are measuring correctly, your bass isn't working right and you need to take it in.

 

[J Wilson]

Get the lowest action?

Take it to a qualified, experienced guitar repairman who will work with you to put it exactly where you want it, unless you are experienced at it to do it yourself. Most aren't.

Depending on your particular way of playing, the strings you want to use, and the particular characteristics of your bass will all factor in just how low you can go. A lighter touch is a definite plus.

We always adjust our basses this way (and always in this order):

Neck relief
String height over the last fret
Set intonation (only with new strings)
Pickup clearance
Nut slot / string clearance over the first fret

I'd also say legendary designer, engineer, master repairman, and industry consultant John Carrithers could work on any of my basses any time I'd be so lucky to work with him.

 

[Jivve]

Get the lowest action?

Take it to a qualified, experienced guitar repairman who will work with you to put it exactly where you want it, unless you are experienced at it to do it yourself. Most aren't.

Depending on your particular way of playing, the strings you want to use, and the particular characteristics of your bass will all factor in just how low you can go. A lighter touch is a definite plus.

We always adjust our basses this way (and always in this order):

Neck relief
String height over the last fret
Set intonation (only with new strings)
Pickup clearance
Nut slot / string clearance over the first fret

I'd also say legendary designer, engineer, master repairman, and industry consultant John Carrithers could work on any of my basses any time I'd be so lucky to work with him.

Let’s hear the rationale for adjusting the relief first. How do you know how low you can set it?

And of course that John guy can probably do it in his sleep, I meant no disrespect. But I really want someone to tell me something other than ”that’s the way it is”, so far that’s all I’m hearing.

Since buzz at the last frets doesn’t have anything to do with relief those frets together with the saddles will decide how low you can go. When those are set you adjust the relief so the first frets doesn’t buzz either. This will result in a very low relief when the frets themselves are in order.

@Alkaline1985 If you only get buzz at certain frets you most likely have a few low or high frets in that area.

 

[scottfeldstein]

I really want someone to tell me something other than ”that’s the way it is”, so far that’s all I’m hearing.

How about the reason I gave above? The neck relief isn't going to change no matter what subsequent changes you make to the bridge saddles or the nut slots or the intonation. It will stay the same no matter what else you do. The neck relief is independent from the other variables. The reverse is not true. If you set your string heights before your neck relief, you very well may have to re-adjust those saddles after. Because the string height can change when you do the neck relief. I don't know if there are other reasons, but that one seems pretty clear. Doing it in the right order prevents a lot of tail-chasing.

 

[J Wilson]

Because relief and action, while certainly inter-related, are two different things. As you've noted, changing relief to chase fret buzz is different results from raising/lowering saddles. We adjust relief to account for the jump rope pattern of the moving strings, and bridge saddles to match the curve of the fingerboard radius and set reasonable clearance at the top of the neck

We follow that order in that each has to be correct to tie each step together into a whole.

Each of my basses adjust to the same original numbers as a solid beginning. I start from the same spot on each instrument. I had an Alembic five that would adjust and play perfectly at .008" relief, very straight, and very rare. My Squiers all run a more normal .012", not unexpected but perfectly fine.

Assuming that there are no real bum fret problems or a neck twist or a badly done nut, I've done this too many times in order to know doing it out of order makes extra problems.

There can be a confusing relationship between the steps, I know this as I turned two Alembics into boat oars until I finally got it straight in my head.

All the best,

JW

 

[Jivve]

@scottfeldstein & @J Wilson now it gets interesting, thanks

 

[J Wilson]

Here's Dave from his YouTube channel 'Dave's World of Fun Stuff' adjusting a neckthrough Premium Ibanez bass very similar to your axe, save for the neckthrough vs. screw-on neck. The procedure and the numbers he voices would work exactly the same for your axe. Dave is a first-class, been-there, seen-everything tech, and a pretty good bassist himself in club bands around his home of Toronto. THIS is how you want to do it.

(6) Ibanez SR Series Bass Guitar - YouTube

 

[scottfeldstein]

Btw, I took out the feeler gauges, my relief is even less than yours. Closer to 5 thousands of an inch (0.13 mm). Hard to measure these small values exactly, even with feeler gauges.[/QUOTE

Here's Dave from his YouTube channel 'Dave's World of Fun Stuff' adjusting a neckthrough Premium Ibanez bass very similar to your axe, save for the neckthrough vs. screw-on neck. The procedure and the numbers he voices would work exactly the same for your axe. Dave is a first-class, been-there, seen-everything tech, and a pretty good bassist himself in club bands around his home of Toronto. THIS is how you want to do it.

(6) Ibanez SR Series Bass Guitar - YouTube

Heck yes, Dave all the way. 90% of what I know about guitar setup I learned by watching his channel.

 

[Jivve]

@J Wilson & @scottfeldstein You are talking about basic setups. I’m talking about getting the absolute lowest action possible. There are two discovery processes involved, one is figuring out how straight the neck can be and the other is how low the saddles can be set. Assume the nut is perfect.

Using some standard measurements will not get you there. When the bass has its basic setup done, do what I’ve described to find the absolute lowest action possible.

A straighter neck means lower action so it’s definetly a component of action. Dave is not trying to discover the lowest possible action. He is doing a basic setup.

 

[scottfeldstein]

@J Wilson & @scottfeldstein Dave is not trying to discover the lowest possible action. He is doing a basic setup.

No, but I am. Which is why I have instruments that have neck relief lower than Dave's 12 thou feeler gauge. Yes, I do test the limit of how far I can go with it and with string height. I lower until there's a problem, then I back it off a hair.

 

[Turnaround]

Common wisdom how to screw two screws. Sure, I get that people think they know how to do it right or whatever. Fact remains, saddles adjust string height, the truss rod doesn’t affect frets above 12ish. If you adjust saddles just enough to not buzz over 12th fret the truss rod will take care of the rest. It really isn’t rocket science. Look at saddles and high frets as one unit. This will in a perfect world be the bottleneck. With even frets then adjusting the relief (as low as possible) so the first few frets don’t buzz will be the optimal setting for lowest action.

Can you or someone else explain the logic of adjusting the truss rod first or is it just something someone once said is the ”correct” way to do it?

I find this very interesting. I’m always on the hunt for lower action

The reason for setting the truss rod first before the saddles is to achieve a setup "by the numbers". If you set your string height at the 12th fret to amount x, (the number you are trying to achieve) then adjust the truss rod, the string height at the 12th will be off from the target number. Going "by the numbers" is a way to help those people who are struggling to find a suitable setup. It's a compromise but a way to arrive at a reasonable setup you can feel assured about. For many, without the numbers as guides they will always doubt their setup.

 

[Jivve]

The reason for setting the truss rod first before the saddles is to achieve a setup "by the numbers". If you set your string height at the 12th fret to amount x, (the number you are trying to achieve) then adjust the truss rod, the string height at the 12th will be off from the target number. Going "by the numbers" is a way to help those people who are struggling to find a suitable setup. It's a compromise but a way to arrive at a reasonable setup you can feel assured about. For many, without the numbers as guides they will always doubt their setup.

That sounds about right. And it’s perfectly fine of course, if you want lower action than the numbers being thrown around I suggest trying the method I described.

@Alkaline1985 If you manage to get your frets leveled properly you can experiment away and you’ll soon find the perfect setting for your bass. Even 0.5 mm less than what you have now is a big win in my book. Also, using my method requires you to personally test the levels of the saddles and relief and make micro adjustments. Only you play like you so expecting someone else to magically set a bass up for lowest possible action for your playing style is asking a lot.

 

[Dadum]

Since the fretboard has a radius, the saddle heights can be adjusted to follow the curve, or not. I’m curious if those going for the lowest height are following the radius.

I adjust slightly differently. The high strings don’t have any slack and can be lower. I don’t pluck them as hard. My b-string is soft and I hit is hard, so I adjust it higher. It’s just what I do.

 

[scottfeldstein]

Since the fretboard has a radius, the saddle heights can be adjusted to follow, or not. I’m curious if those going for the lowest height are following the radius.

I never really understood the worry about this. I mean, how could you not be following the radius? If you set up every string to be 5/64ths of an inch you would be following it perfectly without even having to know what it is. Most players will go lower on the treble side, maybe 4/64. But you're still following it sorta.

 

[Dadum]

26670400[/URL], member: 195734"]I never really understood the worry about this. I mean, how could you not be following the radius? If you set up every string to be 5/64ths of an inch you would be following it perfectly without even having to know what it is. Most players will go lower on the treble side, maybe 4/64. But you're still following it sorta.

Thanks for the reply. I’m just looking for more ideas. I edited my original message with some reasoning but am always looking for better ideas.

Since this started as an Ibanez thread, here is the generic Ibanez process. http://www.hoshinogakki.co.jp/pdf/ibanez/manual/en/eb/maintenance_en.pdf
http://www.hoshinogakki.co.jp/pdf/ibanez/manual/en/eb/maintenance_en.pdf

 

[scottfeldstein]

Thanks for the reply. I’m just looking for more ideas. I edited my original message with some reasoning but am always looking for better ideas.

Since this started as an Ibanez thread, here is the generic Ibanez process. http://www.hoshinogakki.co.jp/pdf/ibanez/manual/en/eb/maintenance_en.pdf

Very cool. Yeah, I've seen that document before. I think I even have it somewhere. Their string height recommendations aren't bad, but the neck relief seems pretty high. .3mm to .5mm? .3 is about 12 thousandths of an inch. To me that is the high end of acceptable. .5 is like 20 thou, way too bent for my taste.

 

[Alkaline1985]

In my experience (not much) with 2 diferent bass, i always get the lowest action with the neck relief higher (0,4 to 0,7mm).
If i set the relief at 0,3 or less i need to set the strings higher with the Bridge to avoid buzzing around 8th to 14th fret.
Of course dependind on the technique i could get lower action but since i like to play different techniques i set It Up For the most restrictive (for me is hard fingerstyle).

I've checked the maintenance doccument of ibanez and the numbers looks similar yo my set Up.
Except for the g string that i have a little higher, I believe that I have the 23rd fret (and maybe the 22nd too) too high, i will make a luthier check It.