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If Squier was Fender

#81
this current sort of Squier renaissance reminds me a lot of when they put out the Squier Pro Tone series in '96-'97. lots of folks "in the know" bought them up due to their extremely sensible quality/price ratio...to the point where it undermined the sales of actual Fenders (mostly MIM, i think). Fender basically admitted that they had a little bit too good of a thing going on, and pulled the line and let it fade away to relative obscurity. (admittedly, i don't see anyone gushing about the Pro Tones, even though they go for ever-increasing prices on eBay.)

but it does seem like Fender has realized that the price/performance thing has worked before, and with the state of the economy, they can try it again with the CV and VM series, without losing their hat over it like they did with the Pro Tones. the price increase of all Fenders probably helps in some way to cover the profit gap between "real" Fenders and the current good quality Squiers.
 
#82
MaxRossell said:
Sure, but I played the Squier '51 ('50s Classic Vibe) yesterday, and I really wouldn't kick it out of bed. And it's probably around half the price of the Japanese re-ish. All these things balance out.
Click to expand...

But that's one of the points. There is a reason it is half the price and it's not just the Fender decal.

Does it have the vintage neck (one piece maple, 7.25 radius, vintage frets)? I don't believe so. Plus, the parts themselves - pots, tuners, etc. - are higher quality in the Fender.
 
#83
dvh said:
But that's one of the points. There is a reason it is half the price and it's not just the Fender decal.

Does it have the vintage neck (one piece maple, 7.25 radius, vintage frets)? I don't believe so. Plus, the parts themselves - pots, tuners, etc. - are higher quality in the Fender.
Click to expand...

I think the point he is trying to make though is that for "price:quality ratio" the Squier is as good or better than the Fender.

It may not have the same parts, and yes that makes it cheaper, but this is balanced out by the price, and they don't sound half bad either.

It depends if you want to spend £550 on a Mexican Fender Jazz, or just £230 on a Squier VM Jazz. The squier sounds better than it should.

I think the Affinity stuff (£180 basses) are still as bad as they were, but good for a beginner really. Its the newer and slightly more expensive few that have improved a lot.
 
#84
I guess I understand the "price:quality ratio" point. However, I think the higher quality of the product merits a higher cost. Is the higher quality going to mean anything to the buyer? I guess it depends on the buyer's own needs and values.

It is a generalization, but, you do get what you pay for.
 
#85
akaTRENT said:
Squier Pbass uses Agathis wood.
"What is Agathis wood?
Agathis is sometimes referred to as "commercial grade mahogany". It is
indigenous to the Far East and South Pacific areas."

Aka professional plywood.
Click to expand...

You are absloutely wrong again. The bodies are made of a few pieces of solid wood that are edge joined, not plywood.

akaTRENT said:
Oh i should also note. When i say plywood, i just mean cheap wood. probably should have mentioned that. dont mean to sound like one of those nerds.
Click to expand...

Too late:

Invalid Link Removed
 
#86
The snob value of the Fender name will nearly always get the extra cash from those
who have it.

I have a 60th anniversary USA F B bass and 08 USA Jazz, plus a Korean P Lyte (the
best bass IMHO that I've ever played).

I also have a VM precision (the sunburst one that looks like a Tele bass, comes loaded
with a huge Fender pickup) and a P Special, both made by Squier and they are both
just fabulous basses. The P special pickups are loud and clear too. I have had 2 Squier
P's and sold them on - only a very original one had powerful enough pickups

Whatever the component parts - a great bass is a great bass. Nice to have 'Fender'
on the headstock, yes - but I'll play a great Squier happily - any of the above are 'go
to' basses for me, regardless of make.
 
#87
I just solved the whole Squier stigma issue.

Use the Fender name on the bass just as any other Fender. Following the name would be "J-Bass" or "P-Bass" instead of "Jazz Bass" or "Precision Bass" then at the top part of the headstock have it say something like Squire Series.
The first 3 digits of the serial number would be SQR. So a serial number would read as SQR03371.

Without Fender boldy putting their brand name on the bass it kind of sends a negative message. I have this same issue with ESP and their LTD series. It's almost as if they are reluctant to admit that it is their product when there is nothing wrong with them at all.

It's as if they are saying that you are too poor to afford our whole name. We'll just put it into really small text on the bass so you can kind of say that you own our brand.

Either it is or isn't a Fender.
I hate gray areas.

Maybe something like this....
Oh...sorry for the lousy photoshop job...I just threw it together...it's not supposed to be a masterpiece or anything
FenderJazzSquierSeries.jpg
 
#88
Ephminus said:
I just solved the whole Squier stigma issue.

Use the Fender name on the bass just as any other Fender. Following the name would be "J-Bass" or "P-Bass" instead of "Jazz Bass" or "Precision Bass" then at the top part of the headstock have it say something like Squire Series.
The first 3 digits of the serial number would be SQR. So a serial number would read as SQR03371.

Without Fender boldy putting their brand name on the bass it kind of sends a negative message. I have this same issue with ESP and their LTD series. It's almost as if they are reluctant to admit that it is their product when there is nothing wrong with them at all.

It's as if they are saying that you are too poor to afford our whole name. We'll just put it into really small text on the bass so you can kind of say that you own our brand.

Either it is or isn't a Fender.
I hate gray areas.

Maybe something like this....
Oh...sorry for the lousy photoshop job...I just threw it together...it's not supposed to be a masterpiece or anything
FenderJazzSquierSeries.jpg
Click to expand...


I love that idea, actually. Kinda like the G&L Tribute thing going on.

The photoshop job ain't bad either!

Fender, are you listening?
 
#89
Haven't you found that when you own a Squier you find yourself saying to people, "I have a Fender......it's a Squier though, but it's a great bass!"

I have a Squier, it's my wife's though actually, and I think I've mentioned it maybe once or twice on Talkbass. It's an Affinity series Squire J-Bass. There, I finally and fully mentioned it on Talkbass. I don't even mention it in my Talkbass profile.
I hate the fact that I feel that way about it. I don't ever say that it's mine like I would with just about any other bass. I would act totally different if she had a Cort or a Washburn.
There is just a stigma to the Squier name, it has a negative mark on it.

By the way, isn't Cort another company that always had the same problem?
 
#91
In an earlier post I mentioned my quest for a good Squire VM Fretless, and the difficulty I had in finding one. I visited two Guitar Centers, two Sam Ash stores, Daddy's (a northeastern chain) and a couple of independent shops. Played at least one VM fretless at each, found none with a decent neck.

Then I remembered "Joe's Guitars" in Wallingford CT. Joe carries Fender and Gibson exclusively. He's a fanatic about the care and keeping of "his" guitars in the shop. I called and he had one in stock. By now I was pretty much resigned to spend a little more and get the new MIM fretless, or pop for a MIA. But as I thought about it, I figured who better to have a good one than Joe? So I stopped on the way home, and the rest is history.

I strung it up with DR Hi-Beams, and brought it to rehearsal last night. Nice. I need to lower the saddles about 1/16" or so to get the action down where I want it (I'll wait until the neck settles in with the new strings, though).

So, yes, there are good ones out there. It just takes some effort to find 'em.
 
#92
RustyAxe said:
Well ... I don't think so. They might sell better, but they'd still be the same inconsistent and unreliable crap. I'm no bass snob, but I thought I wanted a Squire VM Fretless Jazz. I've played no fewer than six over the weekend, and every one of them had a neck made of limp pasta. Fender is wise to keep their "good" name off the bottom of the line unless it deserves it. Right now, even Fender must know that it does not.

I'll probably pop for the new MIM fretless jazz bass instead.
Click to expand...

Man, that's unfortunate. I got a nice one and the neck is excellent. I didn't even play it beforehand, just ordered it via mail order. Great bass for the money. <--- That's the key. What do you expect for the kind of money a Squier Jazz costs? I haven't seen anything better. Sure, there are SX's and stuff, but the shape isn't even right. Look at the pickguard -- it never fits properly. Of course, looks are not everything, but if a company can't even get the basics right then why should I even bother looking at them?

Current Squier's, for what they cost, are terrific. My VM is a great player and sounds totally acceptable.
 
#93
RustyAxe said:
In an earlier post I mentioned my quest for a good Squire VM Fretless, and the difficulty I had in finding one. I visited two Guitar Centers, two Sam Ash stores, Daddy's (a northeastern chain) and a couple of independent shops. Played at least one VM fretless at each, found none with a decent neck.

Then I remembered "Joe's Guitars" in Wallingford CT. Joe carries Fender and Gibson exclusively. He's a fanatic about the care and keeping of "his" guitars in the shop. I called and he had one in stock. By now I was pretty much resigned to spend a little more and get the new MIM fretless, or pop for a MIA. But as I thought about it, I figured who better to have a good one than Joe? So I stopped on the way home, and the rest is history.

I strung it up with DR Hi-Beams, and brought it to rehearsal last night. Nice. I need to lower the saddles about 1/16" or so to get the action down where I want it (I'll wait until the neck settles in with the new strings, though).

So, yes, there are good ones out there. It just takes some effort to find 'em.
Click to expand...

OK, my previous post was written before I saw your last post. I'm glad you found a good one! Hope you have many years happy playing on it.
 
#94
Ephminus said:
I just solved the whole Squier stigma issue.

Use the Fender name on the bass just as any other Fender. Following the name would be "J-Bass" or "P-Bass" instead of "Jazz Bass" or "Precision Bass" then at the top part of the headstock have it say something like Squire Series.
The first 3 digits of the serial number would be SQR. So a serial number would read as SQR03371.

Without Fender boldy putting their brand name on the bass it kind of sends a negative message. I have this same issue with ESP and their LTD series. It's almost as if they are reluctant to admit that it is their product when there is nothing wrong with them at all.

It's as if they are saying that you are too poor to afford our whole name. We'll just put it into really small text on the bass so you can kind of say that you own our brand.

Either it is or isn't a Fender.
I hate gray areas.

Maybe something like this....
Oh...sorry for the lousy photoshop job...I just threw it together...it's not supposed to be a masterpiece or anything
FenderJazzSquierSeries.jpg
Click to expand...

But that's hiow Squier's started out anyway -- they only had Squier in small letters alongside the large Fender logo.

92135100_1845eddee9.jpg
 
#95
Dee_01 said:
Man, that's unfortunate. I got a nice one and the neck is excellent. I didn't even play it beforehand, just ordered it via mail order. Great bass for the money. <--- That's the key. What do you expect for the kind of money a Squier Jazz costs? I haven't seen anything better. Sure, there are SX's and stuff, but the shape isn't even right. Look at the pickguard -- it never fits properly. Of course, looks are not everything, but if a company can't even get the basics right then why should I even bother looking at them?

Current Squier's, for what they cost, are terrific. My VM is a great player and sounds totally acceptable.
Click to expand...

Me too. I got a great VM fretless and the neck is great. Its almost as thin as my Geddy was. The tone is very good as well...I can get that nasally Jacoesque thing happening and it sounds very good in the mix. I said it before, but, my bandmates loved the sound of my Geddy but they asked me to play the VM fretless more often! (now I have a Ric and no Geddy and thats a whole different story)
 

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