I'm in love with Tal

[lunker]

Doors that "should've stayed closed"?...why? Are you saying that an 18 year old male who could play at that level, would have doors slammed in his face because he didn't have curls and a nice shape to his body?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

Sounds like a bit of that jealousy that was mentioned.

Just of those fantastic curls...

We have to create our own opportunity mostly, but it's what happens after we/she walks through said doors, that secures the gig.

Mostly agreed. I never said Tal couldn't score or didn't deserve the gigs she has played, but the aforementioned 'doors' in all likelyhood wouldn't have been open for some 18 yo dude with identical chops and feel. There are, I would confidently wager, hundreds of males of varying ages that can play the same level or higher who haven't gotten anywhere near as far because they don't have the novelty value.

 

[JazznFunk]

Mostly agreed. I never said Tal couldn't score or didn't deserve the gigs she has played, but the aforementioned 'doors' in all likelyhood wouldn't have been open for some 18 yo dude with identical chops and feel. There are, I would confidently wager, hundreds of males of varying ages that can play the same level or higher who haven't gotten anywhere near as far because they don't have the novelty value.

So what's the real solution, now that the spleen-venting is done? We each accept where we are currently in our situations and abilities, set goals for improving, move on, and play! She has a great sound and obviously knows her stuff, and she's more melodic than a lot of so-called bada$$es out there. We don't know all of her back story and how she got the gig in the first place, or at least I don't. If she got it by being female, who cares? Seems pretty silly to hinge the decision of hiring a bass player on gender primarily, so she surely got hired for her abilities as well. Any time a female takes the 'coveted' spot in any male-dominated field, this sort of buzz always happens, and it never solves anything or proves anything... but it sure does get people riled up for some reason. Eventually, people get over it and move on. Let's face it, the people griping about her are musicians/players, not the general listening public. Also, the genres she is focusing on aren't really image-driven... she's not out there playing pop music or anything remotely 'commercial' it seems. So, the argument about image as a deciding/driving factor kind of loses its punch in the grand scheme of things, IMO. She's just out trying to play music and get out there like the rest of us, and she just happens to be playing with folks we'd ALL like to be playing with. Let it be.

 

[Basseroni]

she is a cute thing, and she is good, but not that good but better then most women, how many good woman bassists do you know?

She's better than a lot of guys, too. Skill knows no gender. You either have it or you don't regardless of sex, race, age, etc. IMHO, she's a great bassist among a lot of other individuals that I think are great.

Oh, and to answer that last question, there are a slew of great female bassists out there--Meshell Ndegeocello, Rhonda Smith, Vivi Rama (Will.I.Am), MC Divinity and this is just a partial list.

On another note, her CD, Transformation, is off the chain. Not only is the bass playing hot but there is some good MUSIC and great musicians on this project. I haven't purchased many bass solo projects lately because I'm more interested in listening to good music than a lot of bass chops. I got her CD and Sekou Bunch's new one recently and I must say that I am very happy with my purchases. Great music and great bass playing on both projects.

 

[Basseroni]

That's probably true, but I'd guess that there are just as many who take shots at her, (probably out of jealousy), just because she's female.

True.

Originally Posted by j-raj
Thank you Dave for those clips and agreeing with me.

I think that a few TB'ers (nerdy, uber-single, social-phobia, the ones that sit infront of the computer all day ranting) see a female musician on any instrument, in a mostly male-populated industry and immediately think that she is hot or cute. Get over it.

Now that is another statement that I can agree with. You either like her playing or you don't.

 

[j-raj]

I have to say that I'm a big Wayne Krantz and Keith Carlock fan, so I did get her CD... I have nearly everything that I can find with WK, but I'm still not blown away with her playing... At least, not like I am of Esperanza, Rhonda, MeShell and Divi-baby.

 

[lunker]

1.So what's the real solution, now that the spleen-venting is done?
<snip>
2.If she got it by being female, who cares?
<snip>
3. but it sure does get people riled up for some reason.
<snip>
4.Also, the genres she is focusing on aren't really image-driven... she's not out there playing pop music or anything remotely 'commercial' it seems. So, the argument about image as a deciding/driving factor kind of loses its punch in the grand scheme of things, IMO.
<snip>
5.Let it be.

1. Do you know what a spleen does?

2. I don't. I merely try to foster discussion.

3. You sure seem to be.

4.

5. I'm all done here.

 

[JazznFunk]

1. Do you know what a spleen does?

2. I don't. I merely try to foster discussion.

3. You sure seem to be.

4.

5. I'm all done here.

Since you chose to respond passive-aggressively and not offer anything new to the discussion, I'm done as well. Cheers!

 

[BassXgirl]

I have to say that I'm a big Wayne Krantz and Keith Carlock fan, so I did get her CD... I have nearly everything that I can find with WK, but I'm still not blown away with her playing... At least, not like I am of Esperanza, Rhonda, MeShell and Divi-baby.

I never knew who Wayne was until I heard him on Tal's CD. I'm glad I know who he is now though. I saw him at the Baked Potato (with Tal) and I really loved his playing and humility. Seems like a real cool guy and a great guitar player.

I like Esperanza, but there is something about her style that leaves me a bit uninspired. I'd still love to check her out live sometime though.

 

[BassXgirl]

It sounds with the hesitation of a female. Its atrait I see too often. ME SHELL anyone

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this.

I do get frustrated with MANY female players for being too timid or not having the UMPF in their playing. Is this what you mean?

I don't actually see that in Tal's playing, but I do see it in many amature female players...unfortunately.

 

[GeneralElectric]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this.

I do get frustrated with MANY female players for being too timid or not having the UMPF in their playing. Is this what you mean?

I don't actually see that in Tal's playing, but I do see it in many amature female players...unfortunately.

I know some girls are timid, but in my opinion and experience, its girls who are more willing to get lessons starting out then men. In my opinion its because they're too wrapped up in what they've learned, wondering "am I doing this right?" than going balls to the wall.

I've also seen a ton of guys with the same problem.

Best guitar player I've ever known is a girl.

Best drummer I know used to be a girl.

Best piano player I know is a girl.

Some of the best bassists I know are girls.

 

[Slax]

Tal I feel is a great bassist. From what I've heard, she plays very tastefully.

Great video too btw.

 

[Spencer!]

Tal is good, but I think she lacks a certain uniqueness that many players of her fame have. I can't quite put my finger on it - it just seems like there's something missing.

Me'shell makes my face hurt.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

how many good woman bassists do you know?

I know a lot.

 

[BassXgirl]

I know some girls are timid, but in my opinion and experience, its girls who are more willing to get lessons starting out then men. In my opinion its because they're too wrapped up in what they've learned, wondering "am I doing this right?" than going balls to the wall.

I've also seen a ton of guys with the same problem.

Best guitar player I've ever known is a girl.

Best drummer I know used to be a girl.

Best piano player I know is a girl.

Some of the best bassists I know are girls.

I agree with you 100%

There are definately some great female players. I'm one of them (kidding). I've seen a lot of them over the years (usually in clubs) that seem to get by on looks and image alone. I think those are the one's I'm thinking of. There are just a lot of girls that don't have a lot of interest in actually getting GOOD. I think that's part of the reason why I get so inspired by people like Tal and MeShell. They are definately representing.

Edit: Wow i'm taking over this thread

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

Doesn't do it for me, but I wouldn't expect it to. She's got talent, that's for sure, and she's doing her own thing, so more power to her. Now, would I ever listen to her music? Nope, but I suspect she wouldn't listen to mine either, so it balances out.


As for her being as famous as she is because she's young and good looking or whatever, who cares? Fact is, she's famous in our circle, and griping about it isn't going to do anything constructive. Spend less time typing and more time practicing if all you're going to do is complain.

 

[j-raj]

I never knew who Wayne was until I heard him on Tal's CD. I'm glad I know who he is now though. I saw him at the Baked Potato (with Tal) and I really loved his playing and humility. Seems like a real cool guy and a great guitar player.

WK is a great player, check out "2 Drink minimum" and "Long to be Loose"... Oz Noy is another cat like Wayne, that is worth checking out.

I like Esperanza, but there is something about her style that leaves me a bit uninspired. I'd still love to check her out live sometime though.

she should be at the Baked sometime soon.

Here is a good clip of her playing on the Jimmy Kimmel Show.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Damn! When I was at NAMM I heard some awesome playing coming from a booth around the corner from where I was checking something out. I went to take a look and it was her fiddling with a bass in front of a couple of people. I wanted to slap her just because she looked like she was 12, and was a girl. Didn't know she was well known - this is the second time I've ever seen her. She is an incredibly talented girl. One of the few people who you can tell the music just lives inside.

 

[BassXgirl]

WK is a great player, check out "2 Drink minimum" and "Long to be Loose"... Oz Noy is another cat like Wayne, that is worth checking out.

she should be at the Baked sometime soon.

Here is a good clip of her playing on the Jimmy Kimmel Show.

Esperanza played a few months ago at Catalina Bar & Grill, but I missed it. I found out the day after her gig...

Thanks for the Oz Noy info. Just checked his website and saw he's playing the Catalina with none other than Will Lee and Dave Weckl That's in about two weeks. I'll definately try to check that out.

P.S. Tal's gig at Bass Player Live Nov. 1st is going to be with Wayne and Keith. That should be a good show.

 

[DanielleMuscato]

Just watched that with my jaw on the floor! Why haven't I heard of this guy, how come he is so old and yet not a household name!? I hate that tune (and that album, despite the fact that I love fusion, and it's without a doubt my favourite genre of music, that record is the epitome of dull fuzak imo!) But the chops on display in that video were amazing!

Because he's not a "hot chick"? lol

 

[PsyDocHill]

and Sexist nonsense can be found on this thread. If you like bashing females, perhaps go get some professional help to correct that problem. See, 51% of the world's population is female. So unless you just don't like people by default, listen to the music, and get over your inferiority complex-driven sexism.