I think you might be.
She's only been playing bass for about 5 years, and for the past 2 or 3 years has been scoring gigs with many big name acts. She's a very talented musician.
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I'm in love with Tal
- Thread starter JacoLesFlea
- Start date
I think you might be.
She's only been playing bass for about 5 years, and for the past 2 or 3 years has been scoring gigs with many big name acts. She's a very talented musician.
I think the issue at hand is not female bashing, rather, the level headed are not fawning over her like she is the next Jaco. The level headed are listening objectively and appear, on the whole, not to be blown away by what they are hearing. On the other hand, there are those who are like "I want to marry this girl" and are probably overrating her. Just look at the comments on her youtube videos. Every other one seems to mention how she is "hot" or whatever.
Personally, I don't think she's good looking, so I won't be joining the crowd of fawning fans. Her looks are beside the point however, I think she is a very average player in a genre that contains some of the best guys around.
- Jun 19, 2004
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Well said, Chris. She's an average, solid bass-player, and considering her young age, definitely talented. But, she's hardly "the future of bass" or even really breaking any new ground on the instrument or in the genre. If everything about her were the same (same "hot"-ness, same talent, same age, etc), except she were a spoon instead of a pot, none of us would ever have heard of her. This is not sexism or jealousy speaking, just observation.
She has a quite cool bag, will be interesting to see where she is in say 10-15 years. Must be quite developing playing with the masters and being "one of the cats" at that age ...
D.Don
D.Don
- Jun 19, 2004
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Compare Tal, for example, to Anne-Sophie Mutter, who was 21 years old when this was recorded... This is part 3 of 3 from the 1st movement, so it starts in the middle:
Now, this I can understand being impressed with. Mutter is *far* from an average player, despite her young age, and deserves the international acclaim she has, IMO... and it's not because of her looks or the fact that she's a woman.
Now, this I can understand being impressed with. Mutter is *far* from an average player, despite her young age, and deserves the international acclaim she has, IMO... and it's not because of her looks or the fact that she's a woman.
I've finally gave that song a good listen through this time with my head phones rather than my laptop speakers so I could hear the bass.
I heard this solo in the song and for about the first 80% of it I could've sworn it was straight off some easy listening jazz record they play in waiting rooms and super markets.
All of her lines feel 'used' already from all the youtube stuff of her I've been watching. I mean its just, to me, generic stuff. Solid bassist for sure, but definitely not the most inspirational.
It's inspired me to start one titled "I'm in Love with my Car."
But I'm putting that potentially tremendously important endeavour off for now. Reading this one is entertaining enough.
But I'm putting that potentially tremendously important endeavour off for now. Reading this one is entertaining enough.
Compare Tal, for example, to Anne-Sophie Mutter, who was 21 years old when this was recorded... This is part 3 of 3 from the 1st movement, so it starts in the middle:
)
I do not claim Tal to be the future or bass or an exceptionally special person, but given the circumstances here, that's not an equal comparison you suggest there m8..
D.Don
- Apr 1, 2000
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Can some of you guys who think she's an average player please post some of your stuff? Of listen to her CD, because I hear way more than average from her.....
Let the critics cast their first mp3. Let's hear you bold critics. C'mon, step away from the 'puter, plug your Amazing Bass in, and record some of your upper percentile riffin.' And while you're at it, contemplate the possibility that a virtuoso female bassist makes you feel small in departments that extend beyond your axe.
Of course, we know that no valid criticism can possibly come from someone who is not at least equally talented in the field they are critiquing. I remember one time when I mentioned that Tony Scott was an average film maker and in order to prove it I had to shoot my own summer blockbuster. Concurrently I had also mentioned how I thought Tom Clancy's plots were contrived and had to write my own techno-thriller novel. That was a tough week.
I find Wilkenfeld quite attractive and a talented bassist. But I'm not blown away.... not that many players have that effect on me anyway. When evaluating people's abilities I always make an effort to separate the person from the skill. I think Meshell Ndegeocello is another talented bassist, and I'm not at all attracted to her.......
I saw her play live in sydney with Vinnie & Chick Corea and she was fantastic. Her cd is probably the most listened to Jazz cd in my collection. She just seems so relaxed while playing, an absolute natural. Big fan right here.
Vinnie told the story that his friend ran the academy/place where she starting learning bass at in LA and after 6 months this guy was ringing Vinnie telling him about this little girl that could play... and about a year later when he came down they jammed and he was blown away. He said he was hearing something he expected to come from someone that'd been playing for 10 years, not 1 and a half.
She is quality, has groove, great feel and just looks like she's having fun when she plays. I can't wait to hear what she's playing in 10 years time when she has alot more experience.
Vinnie told the story that his friend ran the academy/place where she starting learning bass at in LA and after 6 months this guy was ringing Vinnie telling him about this little girl that could play... and about a year later when he came down they jammed and he was blown away. He said he was hearing something he expected to come from someone that'd been playing for 10 years, not 1 and a half.
She is quality, has groove, great feel and just looks like she's having fun when she plays. I can't wait to hear what she's playing in 10 years time when she has alot more experience.
Am I right, fellow military bassist? Perhaps it would be best if I didn't speak for someone else, but I'm in the mood.
No, no, take it easy. It's okay: Criticise until you've discharged your opinion and calmed your offended sensibilities. There's nothing wrong with not liking someone's artistic output, regardless of the quality of your own.
But this isn't the issue. You know very well what's motivating 99% of Tal's detractors to get so upset: She dares to be female. It's not a coincidence that only recently have bass/guitar Cos started to even attempt to target an eager and able population of female musicians. You see, it's a good ol' boys club. Tal and others like her threaten the status quo. I like that.
Some people do need therapy, desperately. But it seems that your handle tells the truth Re your mental status: Get out of the waiting room, please. You do not need therapy.
- Jun 19, 2004
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Average among electric jazz bass pro session players, not TBers in general
Stick your head into any of the practice rooms in the dorms at Berklee College of Music and you'll hear the same stuff played by kids the same age, at comparable levels.
- Apr 1, 2000
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There's a huge difference between being an average filmmaker and an average bassist. I must assume that anyone saying she's average listens to her and says "I could do that, or something really similar." I'd like to hear that - because I've been a working musician for 25 years, I've played with some really great musicians, and she's really great to my ears.
Not one of those people in this thread has said "she's average, but she's way better than me", so I'll have to assume they think she's not....
Cool, then why the call to put up or shut up (which you echoed)?
I don't know that and I wouldn't be so dismissive of all the posters in this thread to assume that the reason they might not rate someone's playing ability is simply because they are female. In fact, I give most of the users much more credit than that. The reality is different people have different opinions about what they do and don't like about others playing and what they "rate" as being great. To dismiss detractors of being sexist is, IMO, just as small minded as you are assuming the detractors to be.
I think you missed my point.
I wouldn't assume that. I think Chris Ryan's plots are simplisitic and average. I don't think anyone assumes I could write a better novel.
I took those people to be saying that she was average amoung the peer group of players that she now competes with gigs for. How would you even define "average" by reference to every possible bass player?
Here's a cross section of the main "critics" in this threads posts:
I haven't heard much of her besides that Crossroads DVD and a few random tracks. I thought she was good, but not great. Not saying I'm better, but I know people locally that IMO play better than her. I'll give her myspace a listen though.
None of them jump out to me as saying "i'm better than her" and all of them read like valid criticism to me in which "put up or shut up" seems an unreasonable response.
Gender-biased thinking doesn't necessarily work in only one direction.... it can cause some to overestimate and others to underestimate. Thus, I'd suggest caution regarding making too many assumptions that the gender-bias here is solely negative....
