"How about I just return it instead? Or if you don't want to accept the return, fine, I'll call the manufacturer, and while I'm at it I'll mention your response so they know what awesome service you offer."
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Infuriating. Honestly.
- Thread starter paddydaddyo
- Start date
"How about I just return it instead? Or if you don't want to accept the return, fine, I'll call the manufacturer, and while I'm at it I'll mention your response so they know what awesome service you offer."
"Jerk" is not a crime. "Seems" is something less entirely.
Can you imagine Talkbass without that demographic?
When someone tells a story and you don't think it's true you're welcome to disprove it. I invited you to do it. You failed.
So, you have a point and we're all waiting for you to make it.
Please proceed.
So you're accepting one person's post as "evidence"? Let's see... A post on an Ibanez group on Facebook about how he was wronged by an evil store clerk, but fear not! His Ibanez saves the day and slays the evil Fender dragon and the store clerk in one slice. Evidence?
I found the actual post that started this (that's fact) and looked into the person that posted it (also hard evidence). My opinion based on that evidence is that it is very, very likely that his story is at least slightly embellished.
So what? Also this story sounds like Fender Bashing and could be BS.
If this worries you please stay inside, because it is a big cruel world out there.
If this worries you please stay inside, because it is a big cruel world out there.
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I think smaller shops should really invest in having a full repair/setup pod. One of the first rule of good marketing is never dissing another company. You have to sell your product in a positive way, not with negative comparaison. Plus Ibanez is a great brand...
This on both ends.
Though if the clerk fired first, he sorta had it coming.
I've had a few experiences like this, one seller telling me a bass I was trying was crap -but it was so no foul-, other didn't want me to try an amp so I never came back to that store, and stuff like that.
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I'm sure someone will be along to call BS on these stories (it is TB after all), but I've experienced this kind of customer service from independent stores all my life. Not all by any means, but a lot. Most of those stores are no more. They could make it in the good old days before the internet when you didn't have much choice where to shop. When the web kicked in, their crappy attitude and greed caught up with them. The stores that value service and fair business don't have it easy, but they are surviving.
That may also be true, but the store in the orignal post threw that, and several other, sales away. Even if the store had offered to match the price for the Ibanez and had bought it retail and made no profit it might have kept the amp sale, plus sales on strings, etc.
My absolute was a local shop that touts themselves as a "used gear" shop. They also tout themselves a paying premium prices for used gear. When I first got back into bass 10 years ago, they turned me onto Genz, telling me it was premium gear. Sold me a Genz combo, which was a great amp. When I went to trade up a few years later, I took it back into the exact same retailer, attempting to trade it in on a bigger rig. The salesman (the exact same salesman who sold it to me) then told me he could only offer me about $150 for it, because Genz is some low end California manufacturer that no one in Nashville uses. When I reminded him that he sold me the combo originally, he accused ME of playing games........
I'm sure that would come as a bit of a surprise to Jeff.
And all of the respected musicians that were gigging Genz gear in Nashville, too.....
That kind of attitude from the shop guy directed to a discerning and conscious player may be one of those reasons because small actual shops are vanishing.
How many time my art and knowledge about gear or music has been insulted by the occasional ignorant shop guy, trying to bias my purchase or trying to make me change my mind....too many. A total waste of time, mine and theirs.
How many time my art and knowledge about gear or music has been insulted by the occasional ignorant shop guy, trying to bias my purchase or trying to make me change my mind....too many. A total waste of time, mine and theirs.
Well, with internet the consumer is a lot more knowledgeable than in the past. They come in your store and know what they want, if they can't have it, well internet make it easy. One day every purchase will be online.
and the clerk in the original story wasn't that great either ... he could have proposed something similar that he sells instead of sh***ing on the guy not wanting the Fender anymore and then on the other guy that would have bought the amp ...
and the clerk in the original story wasn't that great either ... he could have proposed something similar that he sells instead of sh***ing on the guy not wanting the Fender anymore and then on the other guy that would have bought the amp ...
I didn't read the 7 pages, but I think this is not a story of people showrooming, but a story of arrogant salespeople. The shop did not carry Ibanez, how can they be offended by someone ordering it online? Not just that, they dissed Ibanez, and told the customer to leave. It this kind of attitude that's costing them business, not showrooming and online retailers...
Brick and mortar companies cannot compete on just selling anymore - they are not price competitive. However, they have a number of service options they can offer to make up for it, to make it hassle free for the customers. For example, while I only buy used these days, I really like the option of trying several instruments in a row before making a purchase, something I cannot do via online stores or buying used from individuals.
Brick and mortar companies cannot compete on just selling anymore - they are not price competitive. However, they have a number of service options they can offer to make up for it, to make it hassle free for the customers. For example, while I only buy used these days, I really like the option of trying several instruments in a row before making a purchase, something I cannot do via online stores or buying used from individuals.
I accidentally did this once. I was in a local store that I have done a fair bit of business with in the past, in fact that day I had brought my friend there because he was looking for an amp and I told him to get it from there, so I brought them business too. Well they were really busy and a guy was there asking what bass companies make fretless basses and I sparked up a conversation with him while the owner was busy helping other customers. Well I stupidly said, "Fender makes fretless basses." Well the next thing I know the owner is coming up to me and yelling at me, "That is one, if you ever advertise to my customers a product that I don't sell again you are out the door!"
I certainly see my mistake now and feel bad, but here is the thing, 1. I was young, a stupid hot shot teenager who was just excited to be in a music store talking about gear with other musicians. 2. I actually had bought a Fender strat from this shop previously, they sold a lot of used gear so there is always Fenders on the wall, it never dawned on me that they "didn't sell Fender". 3. In fact the owner has his own band and he plays a lot of Fender and Gibson instruments in his band, both of which he doesn't sell, but he expects everyone else to play non Fender and non Gibson instruments? Hmm...
I was far more guilty than the guy in the OP post. He was simply sitting in a shop trying out an amp minding his own business, not really sure why he was told to leave.
I certainly see my mistake now and feel bad, but here is the thing, 1. I was young, a stupid hot shot teenager who was just excited to be in a music store talking about gear with other musicians. 2. I actually had bought a Fender strat from this shop previously, they sold a lot of used gear so there is always Fenders on the wall, it never dawned on me that they "didn't sell Fender". 3. In fact the owner has his own band and he plays a lot of Fender and Gibson instruments in his band, both of which he doesn't sell, but he expects everyone else to play non Fender and non Gibson instruments? Hmm...
I was far more guilty than the guy in the OP post. He was simply sitting in a shop trying out an amp minding his own business, not really sure why he was told to leave.
Neither customer did anything wrong here. Dude 1 brought in his own bass to shop amp combos. Dude 2 was ready to buy a Fender, but by chance ended up encountering Dude 1 and tried his personal bass, hence changing his mind about the Fender. This likely was a planets aligning type of situation.
If the shop has access to sell a greater variety of product, without actually stocking in store, why wouldn't they? Ibanez is a widely accepted brand, and makes pretty good quality instruments at reasonable prices. If you refuse to sell Ibanez, you are really just hurting yourself. It's a very popular brand, right up there with Fender.
If the shop has access to sell a greater variety of product, without actually stocking in store, why wouldn't they? Ibanez is a widely accepted brand, and makes pretty good quality instruments at reasonable prices. If you refuse to sell Ibanez, you are really just hurting yourself. It's a very popular brand, right up there with Fender.
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The thesis of the original poster is showrooming is a primary reason for "small shops" failing.
Consider:
The unpaid debt created by the GC conglomerate, has driven manufacturer prices higher. Has been a factor that contributed to FMIC'S failed IPO.
FMIC raising the bar for minimum stock needing to be ordered, and kept in stock in order to become an official dealer.
GC is a brick and mortar operation at least, in part.
Early on you could find a huge variety, and range of product to test drive. You still find a substantial amount of stock on hand. Same with Sam Ash, and to the North, Long and McQuade. These places all but created the "showrooming" mentality. Wide selection on hand, fast ordering and delivery, days instead of weeks for product, price matching etc.
All if these either aligned and or merged with an online entity in order to compete.
Small shops, the smarter more savvy ones at least adapted, and put their in-house inventory online, offered easy ordering of product lines that they did not keep in stock, with reasonable delivery times.
While still providing curteous phone, and in store customer service.
The ones who have not kept pace and learned to provide value add for a small margin, against dwindling margins, driven by market forces are destined to fail.
All other types of entertainment type products have "floor model" demos.
Have you been to Best Buy, Sears, Walmart etc and walked the aisles in the electronics sections?
Go back farther, the Classic TV shops from a bygone era? Were you able to test drive product, touch and feel (or abuse) the products with no real obligation to buy?
How about furniture? Mattresses?
The "showrooming" process has existed long before, and outside of the musical instrument industry.
The distinction is that, in order to compete in a field that has been opened up to "superstores" the small shop, as has always been the case has to distinguish themselves by superior customer service, value adds, and a better shopping experience. The prices must be competitive.
Consequently they must adapt to thinner profit margins on a per item basis, and increase their walk-through to closed sales ratio. Again, how is that done? Customer service and salemanship.
Too many stores of this type have the same, poor attitude, misinformed, acerbic off putting staff as GC. These failings are the heart if the failure of the small businesses in many product spaces NOT the reasons ascerted in this thread, that "showrooming" and the Internet are the reason.
Is it part of the equasion? To be sure.
Can I order my Groceries, and household goods online, from say Amazon? I sure can!
Grocery stores are still doing well.
Can I now browse for building supplies online and have all of my fencing delivered to my home? I sure can. True Value, Orchard, Home Depot survive right next to the neighborhood harware store and traditional lumber yards..
How is musical instrument sales any different?
Consider:
The unpaid debt created by the GC conglomerate, has driven manufacturer prices higher. Has been a factor that contributed to FMIC'S failed IPO.
FMIC raising the bar for minimum stock needing to be ordered, and kept in stock in order to become an official dealer.
GC is a brick and mortar operation at least, in part.
Early on you could find a huge variety, and range of product to test drive. You still find a substantial amount of stock on hand. Same with Sam Ash, and to the North, Long and McQuade. These places all but created the "showrooming" mentality. Wide selection on hand, fast ordering and delivery, days instead of weeks for product, price matching etc.
All if these either aligned and or merged with an online entity in order to compete.
Small shops, the smarter more savvy ones at least adapted, and put their in-house inventory online, offered easy ordering of product lines that they did not keep in stock, with reasonable delivery times.
While still providing curteous phone, and in store customer service.
The ones who have not kept pace and learned to provide value add for a small margin, against dwindling margins, driven by market forces are destined to fail.
All other types of entertainment type products have "floor model" demos.
Have you been to Best Buy, Sears, Walmart etc and walked the aisles in the electronics sections?
Go back farther, the Classic TV shops from a bygone era? Were you able to test drive product, touch and feel (or abuse) the products with no real obligation to buy?
How about furniture? Mattresses?
The "showrooming" process has existed long before, and outside of the musical instrument industry.
The distinction is that, in order to compete in a field that has been opened up to "superstores" the small shop, as has always been the case has to distinguish themselves by superior customer service, value adds, and a better shopping experience. The prices must be competitive.
Consequently they must adapt to thinner profit margins on a per item basis, and increase their walk-through to closed sales ratio. Again, how is that done? Customer service and salemanship.
Too many stores of this type have the same, poor attitude, misinformed, acerbic off putting staff as GC. These failings are the heart if the failure of the small businesses in many product spaces NOT the reasons ascerted in this thread, that "showrooming" and the Internet are the reason.
Is it part of the equasion? To be sure.
Can I order my Groceries, and household goods online, from say Amazon? I sure can!
Grocery stores are still doing well.
Can I now browse for building supplies online and have all of my fencing delivered to my home? I sure can. True Value, Orchard, Home Depot survive right next to the neighborhood harware store and traditional lumber yards..
How is musical instrument sales any different?
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I get the original point of this post. I don't but from local stores because I don't like the owners/shopworkers. They aren't truly friendly. Generally it feels like they are stuck in an outdated business model. Telling a customer you don't carry Ibanez because it's junk insulting and lame.
madbass6
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Personally I think buying any Instrument online with out testing it first is just crazy! & I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks like this! So if i know the small local music shop has what I'm gassing for rite down the st. of course im going to test it wile i have the chance! Why not, Wouldn't you ? Lets be realistic ! So In my opinion what the smallshop should do is have there own online shopping p.g as an option and beat the competition by offering a better deal like some kind of free accessorie(s)a free set up etc. And be upfront with the customer by saying look i know theres big online deals but if if you choos to buy from me (small shop)
you will get the best deal and service! & actually do it! Personally I prefer the small shop shopping experience all the way ! But the Crapy reality is times have changed, small shops need to get with the program before they become extinct!
you snooze (small shop) you lose!
welcome to 2016!
you will get the best deal and service! & actually do it! Personally I prefer the small shop shopping experience all the way ! But the Crapy reality is times have changed, small shops need to get with the program before they become extinct!
you snooze (small shop) you lose!
welcome to 2016!
