yeah, I'm lost on knife edging, flush filling, and edge rolling...
but again, I'll keep you in the loop post fb leveling.
but again, I'll keep you in the loop post fb leveling.
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InLace liquid inlay
- Thread starter wentworthk
- Start date
Knife edging is another term for rolling the edges. With a fresh blade or (old school really sharp carving knife) freshly burnished scraper is ok too. to round between the frets on the edge of the fingerboard. It gives the "broken in" feel right away and translates are comfort to most players.
Flush filing is just filing the fret ends flush with the side of the fingerboard/ neck.
Flush filing is just filing the fret ends flush with the side of the fingerboard/ neck.
i didnt even think about rounding that edge, that sounds like it would be way more comfortable and feel way nicer...
so exciting stuff, my radiused sanding block got here from stew mac, way earlier than I had expected!
so I mixed up another batch of the inlace, and filled all the holes last night. this morning I got up bright and early at the crack of 11, and decided to take a look at it. it was all set up and hardened.
being strapped for time today though, I only sanded off the first fret marker, but it looks great!!!! see pictures attached! Hapa, I'll give you a shout once I've gotten the whole thing leveled, should be sanding the rest of this monday night... hopefully i'll get that damned body veneer off too...
so I mixed up another batch of the inlace, and filled all the holes last night. this morning I got up bright and early at the crack of 11, and decided to take a look at it. it was all set up and hardened.
being strapped for time today though, I only sanded off the first fret marker, but it looks great!!!! see pictures attached! Hapa, I'll give you a shout once I've gotten the whole thing leveled, should be sanding the rest of this monday night... hopefully i'll get that damned body veneer off too...
Looks good! Do you have different blocks for the other radii? I ask because you might have a compound radius fretboard.
Thumpin its an Epiphone...I do not think compound radius is in its vocabulary.
Sir Wentworthk,
Well I got to say that the results look pretty good. I few words to consider. As much as I know you are excited to get work completed, hold off untill all the inlays are filled before sanding them down. If you sand any wood off the fb, it will make low spots on the fb. Later it is just going to be more wood to remove for the final fb leveling...further away from spec.
Body sanding - You do not need to sand through veneer, and I wouldn't. You have no idea what the factory is covering with that veneer (clear finish right?). For refinishing purposes flat over all is what you are trying to accomplish. Perfectly parallel in all dimensions is what we strive for but there are too many factors out of your control to make that happen.
Sir Wentworthk,
Well I got to say that the results look pretty good. I few words to consider. As much as I know you are excited to get work completed, hold off untill all the inlays are filled before sanding them down. If you sand any wood off the fb, it will make low spots on the fb. Later it is just going to be more wood to remove for the final fb leveling...further away from spec.
Body sanding - You do not need to sand through veneer, and I wouldn't. You have no idea what the factory is covering with that veneer (clear finish right?). For refinishing purposes flat over all is what you are trying to accomplish. Perfectly parallel in all dimensions is what we strive for but there are too many factors out of your control to make that happen.
Use a flat edge across the body to see how "flat" the body is, use the light n shadow trick. Ideally make a big flat block for sanding - get an old 2x4 or super stable board of wood, Something as long as the bass body is wide, thick enough to grab onto from the top, hard enough not to dent easily. Use a belt sander to make a flat surface. stick sanding paper to it. presto - flat sanding block good for lots of stuff 
like beveling all the frets at the same time. Make one just under the length of the back of the neck and you have a block for leveling the neck and neck shaping, etc.
like beveling all the frets at the same time. Make one just under the length of the back of the neck and you have a block for leveling the neck and neck shaping, etc.Hapa, don't worry, I waited till they were all filled! (I assumed you would advise that anyway, so I held off till they were) this is the first one I got flush, I didn't have enough time over the weekend to get the whole thing sanded.I sanded that one down with the 16" radius block that I got.
As for the body, I already knocked a quarter of the veneer off the back, and the wood looks pretty good, I've been using a large/long block of wood to do that sanding, its been coming right along, been working really hard to keep it level too.
I'm not terribly concerned about finding knots or what have you under neath the veneer, as I've already got two large ones outside of the confines of said veneer (one right on the top of the neck butted up to the fb, the other on the bottom edge, where a 1/4" jack would be on other basses/guitars.)
So im thinking for dealing with them, just going to put some matching color wood putty and just packing it and then sanding flush- thoughts?
As for the body, I already knocked a quarter of the veneer off the back, and the wood looks pretty good, I've been using a large/long block of wood to do that sanding, its been coming right along, been working really hard to keep it level too.
I'm not terribly concerned about finding knots or what have you under neath the veneer, as I've already got two large ones outside of the confines of said veneer (one right on the top of the neck butted up to the fb, the other on the bottom edge, where a 1/4" jack would be on other basses/guitars.)
So im thinking for dealing with them, just going to put some matching color wood putty and just packing it and then sanding flush- thoughts?
Ahh, you are on the right track sanding the body with a block.
For knots, yes you are on the right track, fill, then sand.
For knots, yes you are on the right track, fill, then sand.
Hey hapa, want to pick your brain about something else- what do you think about routing out and putting an eb-3 neck pick up/ mudbucker in the bridge spot as well? Double mudbucker? How do you think it would sound? Going for a stoner/doom/blues/sabbath sound... Would that work?
hapa...I definitely chuckled on that one.
wentworthk. You are on the right track, man...looking good!!!
wentworthk. You are on the right track, man...looking good!!!
ok, I've now sanded down the fretboard, which was alot of fun in might add. It took it to 400 grit, which is what my sand paper combo pack came with at its highest.
a couple of things to those of who may find this thread in the future looking for info on inlace liquid inlay:
don't use the thickener. its not worth the extra money, and in one of the two cavities that I used it on, i have three very small air bubble holes- i plan on patching them, witch shouldnt be terribly difficult- think ill mix a tiny batch and just poke it into the hole with a tooth pick, let it dry and sand it flush.
other than that, this stuff works great, did exactlty what it should have, and looks great!
Hapa, whats the next step man?
a couple of things to those of who may find this thread in the future looking for info on inlace liquid inlay:
don't use the thickener. its not worth the extra money, and in one of the two cavities that I used it on, i have three very small air bubble holes- i plan on patching them, witch shouldnt be terribly difficult- think ill mix a tiny batch and just poke it into the hole with a tooth pick, let it dry and sand it flush.
other than that, this stuff works great, did exactlty what it should have, and looks great!
Hapa, whats the next step man?
DO IT! You will not regret it. I recently made a frankenbass and used the mudbucker from my Gibson (the Gibson now wears a Dimarzio Model One) in the bridge position of a defretted Ibanez SR600 and I found my new favourite sound. It is flat out brilliant.
Aside from it sounding so good, if your stock pickup is a super high resistance one (don't know what they use in the Epiphone versions) you will find dialling in the standard bridge pickup does little to change the tone
Here is a video of a guy who did just what you are speaking of
I'm keen to see what you make of this beast
Hopkins
Commercial User
That inlace stuff, looks like it may make a pretty good grain filler as well. I may have to do some experimenting. How hard is it to sand?
Thanks for the intel eddy- I've actually watched that video before whilst googling around for intel in hipshot super tone- I was so transfixed on the bridge that I didn't notice the pups...
Hopkins, yes it sands easy enough I'd imagine it would work as a grain filler, little pricey, and I don't know how clear coating would go if you wanted to do a natural finish
Hopkins, yes it sands easy enough I'd imagine it would work as a grain filler, little pricey, and I don't know how clear coating would go if you wanted to do a natural finish
From your pictures I have a few questions:
Did you remove all tension on the truss rod before sanding? Check the how flat the surface of the fb is from the 1st to the last fret. It looks like you may have sanded a little bit of curve into the fb. If there was tension on the neck and the book leveled it back up then you may have accidentally done something very awesome, simulated string tension fb leveling of sorts. If there wasn't and the neck was bowing up when you leveled you are going to have a tricky time fret leveling. Check this first and let me know. It can be corrected if a problem.
If all else is OK:
Radius your wire just over the radius (more curvature) to the fb
cut your wire with 1/4" extra for each slot. Use a piece of tape sticky side up to keep them in order.
using the flush cutters and fret file cut the tang in between the teeth inside the width of the slot.
dance those frets in with some glue. I prefer super glue since its metal to wood but many live by wood glue. Be anal retentive about how they seat. let the glue dry for 30 minutes to an hour, 90min for wood glue.
Clip ends just off from flush, flat file the sides flush to the side of the fb. Bevel the fret ends, then using a flat block and 220 grit take the bevel into the wood just 1/16th or so. This gives feed back to how flat the taper is on the neck as well as a guideline for the knife edging later.
For now this is where you stop until done with finishing...You could finish the fret job now, but once you have hardware on and can adjust the tension the neck to where it needs to be you can get a much better setup.
Otherwise level the frets, crown them, round over the ends, polish them, using 2-3 fresh razor blades as a scraper round between the frets using the line sanded in from before as a guide. blend down the neck with the 320 - 400.
Did you remove all tension on the truss rod before sanding? Check the how flat the surface of the fb is from the 1st to the last fret. It looks like you may have sanded a little bit of curve into the fb. If there was tension on the neck and the book leveled it back up then you may have accidentally done something very awesome, simulated string tension fb leveling of sorts. If there wasn't and the neck was bowing up when you leveled you are going to have a tricky time fret leveling. Check this first and let me know. It can be corrected if a problem.
If all else is OK:
Radius your wire just over the radius (more curvature) to the fb
cut your wire with 1/4" extra for each slot. Use a piece of tape sticky side up to keep them in order.
using the flush cutters and fret file cut the tang in between the teeth inside the width of the slot.
dance those frets in with some glue. I prefer super glue since its metal to wood but many live by wood glue. Be anal retentive about how they seat. let the glue dry for 30 minutes to an hour, 90min for wood glue.
Clip ends just off from flush, flat file the sides flush to the side of the fb. Bevel the fret ends, then using a flat block and 220 grit take the bevel into the wood just 1/16th or so. This gives feed back to how flat the taper is on the neck as well as a guideline for the knife edging later.
For now this is where you stop until done with finishing...You could finish the fret job now, but once you have hardware on and can adjust the tension the neck to where it needs to be you can get a much better setup.
Otherwise level the frets, crown them, round over the ends, polish them, using 2-3 fresh razor blades as a scraper round between the frets using the line sanded in from before as a guide. blend down the neck with the 320 - 400.
Hapa, I didn't remove tension from the truss rod prior to sanding- I didn't even think about doing that, oops!
however, I checked the surface, with a yard stick over the entire length, and have attached pictures. In the picture where the smaller ruler is coming directly down onto the fret marker, the fretmarker in question it the ninth fret, so roughly the middle. that Ruler is in milimeters, so it looks like at worst, the bow in my neck- post sanding, is 1 mm. which doesn't seem like a lot.
Have i just dodged a bullet and completely unknowingly simulated string tension?! did I just accidentally do something right?!
In any event assuming I'm ok- have three small air bubbles that i have to patch in the third fret marker, I'll be doing that tomorrow, and likely re-sanding just that one on saturday morning.
my next question- how do I know what kind of frets to get?Invalid Link Removed stainless steel? what size? do you think I could get it from a local repair shop and ask them to pre-radius it for me-if so, what should I ask for?
however, I checked the surface, with a yard stick over the entire length, and have attached pictures. In the picture where the smaller ruler is coming directly down onto the fret marker, the fretmarker in question it the ninth fret, so roughly the middle. that Ruler is in milimeters, so it looks like at worst, the bow in my neck- post sanding, is 1 mm. which doesn't seem like a lot.
Have i just dodged a bullet and completely unknowingly simulated string tension?! did I just accidentally do something right?!
In any event assuming I'm ok- have three small air bubbles that i have to patch in the third fret marker, I'll be doing that tomorrow, and likely re-sanding just that one on saturday morning.
my next question- how do I know what kind of frets to get?Invalid Link Removed stainless steel? what size? do you think I could get it from a local repair shop and ask them to pre-radius it for me-if so, what should I ask for?
Well it looks like you did sand a little bit of up bow. This is difficult to write but here goes: If tension was not taken out of the neck and the book under the headstock created enough tension on the neck when it was clamped down when sanding made the fb close to flat then yes you did something really good by mistake.
If the tension on the neck was not taken out and the book was just something to elevate the neck with the angled head stock then that bow you see^** was put in by the flexing of the neck when you sanded the radius. This is not good but fixable, you have plenty of fb there.
** just curious how did you take that picture? Was the bass still clamped or was it free.
Ideally one wants to have support under the entire length of the neck when radiusing. In your setup, keep tension on the neck and use the straight edge to determine how much you need to clamp down the body to make the fb as level as possible. Try to sand across the length with more passes vs as much downforce as possible for max friction. Don't forget to change out your sand paper, fresh paper cuts so nicely and you will just add time using spent paper. That and it's the cheapest material you have. Vaccuum out that fb.
For a first time fretting with a hammer... Jumbo is fine, but it's really your spec what ever you like. I would recommend to stay away from Stainless as you do not have the right tools for that. It can dull a standard fret file in one job, break the teeth of the clippers you just bought, expense if you make mistakes, etc. I prefer little frets, they are a bit more difficult to seat properly. Too hard of a hammer blow or incorrect installation can easily cause the wire to kink. if your local shop can get you wire, then have them radius it to 12-14" approx...just rounder by a little than the 16" radius of your fb.
If the tension on the neck was not taken out and the book was just something to elevate the neck with the angled head stock then that bow you see^** was put in by the flexing of the neck when you sanded the radius. This is not good but fixable, you have plenty of fb there.
** just curious how did you take that picture? Was the bass still clamped or was it free.
Ideally one wants to have support under the entire length of the neck when radiusing. In your setup, keep tension on the neck and use the straight edge to determine how much you need to clamp down the body to make the fb as level as possible. Try to sand across the length with more passes vs as much downforce as possible for max friction. Don't forget to change out your sand paper, fresh paper cuts so nicely and you will just add time using spent paper. That and it's the cheapest material you have. Vaccuum out that fb.
For a first time fretting with a hammer... Jumbo is fine, but it's really your spec what ever you like. I would recommend to stay away from Stainless as you do not have the right tools for that. It can dull a standard fret file in one job, break the teeth of the clippers you just bought, expense if you make mistakes, etc. I prefer little frets, they are a bit more difficult to seat properly. Too hard of a hammer blow or incorrect installation can easily cause the wire to kink. if your local shop can get you wire, then have them radius it to 12-14" approx...just rounder by a little than the 16" radius of your fb.
