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Double Bass Innovation 140B string construction?

K

kurt

Mar 15, 2004
251
41
Lethbridge A.B. Canada
www.myspace.com
#1
I have a set of Innovation 140B solo gauge strings and like them quite a bit. However the G seems to have a different winding on it. The E A and D are like a more robust evah pirrazzi but the G seems thinner sounding and has some weird overtones. It also looks and feels different, kind of like a dead Corelli 370. The windings also seem weaker, they are rougher and are getting some nicks whereas the other strings are very smooth and have no marks at all. And they are a bit scratchier with the bow.

Has anyone else noticed this? I think I would prefer it to have the same windings as the others. I really like this set but the G bugs me. My set is a few years old. Is Innovation still making this set like this? I heard they had changed the construction of some of their strings.

If anyone knows about this I would appreciate it. Thanks!
 
#3
kurt said:
I just looked at the Innovation website. It says that the G on the solo set is Aluminium wound but the others are chrome wound. I guess that explains it. On the regular gauge 140's and the 140H's they are all chrome. I wonder what their reasoning is behind this.
Click to expand...

My guess would be to keep mass down. That way they can use more nylon in the G string.
 
#4
Hi Kurt,
Michael is right in that the aluminium winding is there to keep the mass down; in fact if you took each string apart you'd find that each one is surprisingly different in the windings underneath the outer wrap as well, and it's all to do with matching the tone and weight across the set.
I've recently started doing some work with Innovation to improve their existing sets and come up with some new ones, so this kind of feedback is great - I've read a couple of other comments about the aluminium wrap on the G string not being popular, so it's one of the things I'm definitely going to look at.
Cheers,
Daf
 
#5
Hey Daf, your the one doing the research on basschat right? I've been meaning to sign up for that site to post my comments but haven't gotten around to it.

I play jazz pizz, slap, and arco all on a regular basis. The solo 140 Bs at concert pitch work well for all 3 but the G just bugs me a bit. I'm not sure that the other wrap would bother me much, it seems like the tension is slightly lower than the other strings but I could be imagining it.

I've also used the rockabillys quite a bit and like them a lot. They bow ok, on some basse better than others, but since I've been working on bowing in thumb position more, I'm finding they are a little harder to control the higher up you go.

I've been experimenting with guts and whackers lately so now i'm missing the thumpier attack and and really low tension when I have innovations on.

I've been interested in trying the silver slaps because people say they are darker and lower tension but have shied away because some people have said the rockabillys bow better. But some people have now told me they bow better than the rockabillys.

I've had the Evah pirrazzi solos back on for a couple weeks and they are good but it's annoying how they will ring forever at high volumes.

That's one thing about whackers that I liked, you could hammer that E and it will always stop on its own. but I wish it had just a little more sustain for acoustic playing and higher up the neck.

It still seems like quite a divide between whackers/guts and wound nylons.

What I would really love would be really low tension dark sounding nylon strings that bow ok. Not sure if it would be possible.

I guess I might have to try the Silver Slaps.
 
#6
Hi kurt,
Yes, that's me over on basschat! Thanks for the reply - some really interesting points there! (especially that some people feel that the rockabillys bow better that the "orchestral" strings - that'll really put the cat amongst the pigeons back at Innovation!) ;)
I also use the solos tuned to orchestral and know what you mean about the G string - it's a bit weak, and I also struggle with the bow higher up the neck - it seems to strangle very easily, but that's one thing I hope to work on - I also want to try a tuned down version of the solos wrapped in nylon to see if we can lose a bit of the metallic edge on the slap (without comprimising the overall sound) - they just might suit you?! Will let you know when I have a working prototype - perhaps you could try them out and let me know what you think?
I've also written a survey about string preferences which will really help me in the design process, and the owners of talkbass have said I can post a link to it - I'd be really grateful to everyone if you could take some time to fill it in for me.... I'd love to hear your opinions!

Invalid Link Removed

Thanks in advance (any problems please let me know)

Cheers,
Daf
 
#8
Thanks for filling that in for me Francois, it's much appreciated - I hope it all seemed to make sense! Some interesting stuff there - you've sure tried a lot of their strings! Good point about the ultra blacks - it's not one of the sets I'm very familiar with but I'll have a listen for the balance when I get to spend some time with them.
As for the winding problem on the braided set; could I ask when that was roughly? The reason being that they addressed the quality control problem some time ago but if there are still issues I need to let them know...
Thanks again for taking the time!
Cheers,
Daf
 
#9
daflewis said:
As for the winding problem on the braided set; could I ask when that was roughly? The reason being that they addressed the quality control problem some time ago but if there are still issues I need to let them know...
Thanks again for taking the time!
Cheers,
Daf
Click to expand...
Hi Daf.
Hard to say exactly, a few years ago, and I don't know since when the retailer had them in stock either.

François
 
#11
Hey Daf, just sent in the survey.

I think you misunderstood me, I meant that some people have commented that the silver slaps bow better than the rockabillys and vice versa. The solos did bow better than the rockabillys IMO. I have not tried the slaps however so I cannot comment on them.

Of the innovations I like the 140 solos best for arco. I like the rockabillys for their ease of play/low tension.

But I like a string with less tension for slapping and maybe a little less sustain. But I haven't tried the slaps yet so maybe they could be more to my liking.

Overall I like Innovation strings, but slapping pizz and arco make it hard to decide on one set!
 
#12
Hi Kurt,
Yes, - I realised I'd got the wrong end of the stick when I re-read your post, but I thought editing my answer might have caused more confusion... so sorry about that!
The fact that you slap, bow and pizz must make it a nightmare for finding the right string, though I've come across a few guys who seem to think that the silver slaps bow ok (though with a slightly "reedy" sound) and others who use it regularly for jazz, so maybe...

I'll do what I can to come up with something else for you over the coming months but I must confess it's a pretty tall order!

Cheers,
Daf

P.S. Thanks for filling in the survey for me - and that goes for everyone else too! I'll be doing the first draw for a free set of strings in a few weeks so I'll keep you all posted...
 
#13
Well, I did the draw for the first set of strings yesterday and the winner is Michael Glynn from New Mexico - a member here on Talkbass!
I'll do another draw in a couple of months - everyone who's already filled in the survey will be re-entered automatically - if you haven't filled it in yet and want a chance to win.... Well, you know the rest!
I've had 100 responses so far so just wanted to say a big thankyou once again to everybody!
Cheers,
Daf

Just a reminder of the link...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...mkey=dGxUbzNOWXR6QWxwb21RempXSmRIYlE6MQ#gid=0
 
#14
I've been mucking around with the 140B solos some more. They are a great string, but I still have the same issues.

The G sounds good but there is an annoying kind of ping at times, sort of like the sound a basketball makes when you bounce it, and after playing a long set my hands are all black! I think it's just the G, the fingerboard under the G looks like it's covered in metal dust but not on the other 3 strings.

For some reason, I find them more difficult to play than the rockabillys.

It also seems like the D and E are higher tension than the G and A.

They are definitely the best bowing innovation string I've tried though, all 4 bow nicely.
 
#15
Thanks Daf.
Which set did he win, if I may ask?

Best regards,
François

daflewis said:
Well, I did the draw for the first set of strings yesterday and the winner is Michael Glynn from New Mexico - a member here on Talkbass!
I'll do another draw in a couple of months - everyone who's already filled in the survey will be re-entered automatically - if you haven't filled it in yet and want a chance to win.... Well, you know the rest!
I've had 100 responses so far so just wanted to say a big thankyou once again to everybody!
Cheers,
Daf

Just a reminder of the link...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...mkey=dGxUbzNOWXR6QWxwb21RempXSmRIYlE6MQ#gid=0
Click to expand...
 
#16
Hi François,
Of course you may ask! - the winner gets to chose whichever set they want.... Actually, in Michael's case, as he hasn't found an Innovation set that suits him, we've arranged to hold off for now in the hope that I can come up with something that he likes.... No pressure then! ;)

@Kurt I understand what you mean by "ping", but it's not something I've experienced - i'll keep an ear out for it next time i string them up (and the black finger too!)....
Also, thanks for the pm - I'll reply properly tomorrow if that's ok - it's midnight here now... But I really appreciate the great ideas you've mentioned!

Cheers,
Daf
 
#18
Hi Kurt,
Sorry about the delay with replying to your PM... as I mentioned, the factory is so busy filling orders that i've not been able to get any new prototypes out of them for ages - it's frustrating, but i guess sales must come first.
I know they're training a new string maker, but it's a very skilled job so it's going to be quite a few months before things ease off for Tony (the chief tech).

another reminder of the link to my string survey...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...mkey=dGxUbzNOWXR6QWxwb21RempXSmRIYlE6MQ#gid=0

I'm away on holiday for a couple of weeks, but when i get back I'll arrange another draw for a set of innovation strings.

Cheers,
Daf
 

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