interested in power conditioners. any suggestions?

[Highpost]

I betcha the guys in this thread have gigged for decades more than you. You know, we've never lost a gig because I told a club their stage power was dangerous. In fact, one of the places I did it to has hired us repeatedly and now they've taped over the bad outlets so no one else gets hurt either.

If you're plugging in drunk at soundcheck, that's probably a more likely cause of being sacked from a club's lineup.

"Sacked from the clubs lineup" lmao. Good one. T B is too fun.

 

[Dave W]

Why would some one trust a tacky ass 8$ surge protector with thousands of dollars of equipment. That device's appearance is a good indicator of how reliable it is. Plug into to it. I'll plug into a monster surge protector / electric filter/ snake science/ etc......

What's funny is that you don't realize your "power conditioner" is usually nothing more than a rack mounted version of the $8 tacky surge protector you keep mocking, with lights on the front on it. Go ahead, fight it and say I have no idea what I'm talking about. Then go and open the top of it and have a look for yourself.

People are suggesting the OP saves his money and not use a "power conditioner" not much point in recommending something that we don't think is useful unless you want a rack mounted power strip. In which case, there really isn't much difference between them until you reach a certain price point.

Hey go ahead and check the outlet and wiring in the club before a gig. There is plenty of time to rewire. I betcha you won't be performing there again.

Who said I was going to rewire the place? Chances are pretty good that one of the outlets on a stage is fine to use. I'll take 30 seconds to find it. You make it sound like it's rocket science to figure out.

There is only one local bar that we don't perform at any more, and that is our choice...not theirs. It has nothing to do with the wiring of the building.

 

[wcriley]

Maybe we should start over by defining what a "power conditioner" is?
A. Is is it a rack mount strip with surge suppression like most of the lower priced Furmans?
B. Does it also contain a choke and cap to suppress line noise like some of the mid priced ones?
C. Does it regulate the voltage like the very expensive ones?

The problem comes from Type A (above) being marketed as "power conditioners".

 

[BurningSkies]

For anyone who wants something rack mounted, I'd suggest a rack-mount power strip mounted in the back of the rack. You get your one-switch convenience and keep your stuff plugged in and in place and you can do so for less than 50 bucks.

If your amp doesn't have proper standard power filtering and/or breaker and fuse technology...get a new amp.

 

[logicman69]

I am one of those guys that uses a Monster Pro-1000 power conditioner (Booo.. Hisss... lol). Why?? Because I used to work in a music store and got it for cheep (ie: Free). It works, I plug things in, it gives me power, and I like the fact that it auto stages my power up/down (certain plugs get power first). Would I actally buy another one? Probably not, but I have it and I'm going to use it.

 

[BurningSkies]

I am one of those guys that uses a Monster Pro-1000 power conditioner (Booo.. Hisss... lol). Why?? Because I used to work in a music store and got it for cheep (ie: Free). It works, I plug things in, it gives me power, and I like the fact that it auto stages my power up/down (certain plugs get power first). Would I actally buy another one? Probably not, but I have it and I'm going to use it.

Free is fine. My only qualm is the extra rack space and extra weight. I'm happy to be down to a 3 space rack and a 7lb stereo power amp.

 

[Highpost]

I am one of those guys that uses a Monster Pro-1000 power conditioner (Booo.. Hisss... lol). Why?? Because I used to work in a music store and got it for cheep (ie: Free). It works, I plug things in, it gives me power, and I like the fact that it auto stages my power up/down (certain plugs get power first). Would I actally buy another one? Probably not, but I have it and I'm going to use it.

Thank you. At least you suggested a rack mount power conditioner. Which is a reply to the basis of this thread. The individual,is looking at a rack mount power conditioner and wants a suggestion.. Lolololololol

 

[Dave W]

Being rack mounted isn't a requirement listed in the OP. Nor is he asking for suggestions on specific models. He's asking for general opinions on them. You gave yours, we gave ours.

lolllooollololololoooooooolllllllllllllllllllllll

 

[B-string]

ever since i let my friend borrow my svt and a tube got shorted due to some dodgy power situation, and since i potentially play lots of suspect places anyway, i;ve been seriously considering a power conditioner...


these are the 2 i'm looking at on amazon, and someone mentioned it won't be worth my while unless i am spending around $200.

i have a decent surge protector, but ya know punk shows in ****** basements...

Amazon.com: APC LE1200 Line-R 1200VA Automatic Voltage Regulator: Electronics [www.amazon.com] »

Amazon.com: Furman M-8Lx Standard Level Power Conditioning, 15 Amp, 9 Outlets with Wall Wart Spacing, Pullout Lights: Electronics [www.amazon.com] »

The first one (APC) is a line regulator. The second one is a surge protection with basic noise filters.
Don't know if the APC will handle the demand peaks as no real specs are listed?

 

[will33]

I agree with the assessment on "Monster" products of any type.
Your opinion on the "power conditioner" has been clear many times.
On the other thread i believe someone did link a filter type used in these black boxes? I saw no need to argue the point as you are firm in your belief. If you really want to know what is built into the power supplies of equipment (and it is not much at all, if anything) do the research. Equipment manufacturers should build in pre-filters in the event the equipment maybe plugged into the same circuit as faulty motors, ballasts, dimmers, fans, SMPS like for laptops, some TV's or even a faulty satellite receiver?

Why does your car stereo need a power filter? At least that application has fewer sources and types of noise.

Not trying to argue, just wondering what in these things could be killing the noise. If it is the little filter thing, why wouldn't people just build them into the amps/rack gear? The things are only a few bucks retail, an amp maker should be able to get them by the hundreds pretty cheap. Same with the little MOV's.

If it's quieting the noise, it's doing something the amp's not......why? There can't be more than $20 worth of parts in these $100, $200 furman type units.

 

[will33]

Oh, and my car radio's don't need the filters. Some guys have used them and they worked though....probably got a bad ground in the car somewhere. But those line filters are only a few bucks. The power conditioners are a few bucks worth of parts in a rackcase with a few extra 50 cent electrical outlets and a couple of lights, then marked up to the tune of 10x to 20x.....talking 1000% or something there.

 

[B-string]

The power supplies in amps are designed to filter low frequency "noise" from the DC supply and provide a power reserve (conventional large core). Just as a RF carrier (AM and FM being the most known to everyone) can also carry audio, noise of different frequencies and modulations can and will be carried on the mains supply. Since a whole different type of filtering is needed this "noise" can pass with the DC.
An example of a commercial broad filter Invalid Link Removed
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This filtering is best done before the step-down or step-up.

 

[will33]

So it does cure some noise then. I still don't see why they wouldn't put them in the amps. Perhaps the noise isn't a problem often enough to justify the expense on every amp?

I've honestly never needed one. Haven't run into any noise that wasn't fixed by good grounding or in the worst case, moving the amp a few inches away from whatever it didn't like. I assume that would be interference from tranzformers in the units being close together. I know a couple guys with these furman things. I should pull the cover off one of theirs and see just what's in there. Should find some type of filter unit like that, no? Ones I have seen are mostly empty space, just like taking the guts from a powerstrip and laying it out in a bigger case.

 

[B-string]

It does help with some noise. I have had problems personally but a "basic" unit did nothing. Took a stage two or three filter to eliminate it.
Over-priced for what they do: yes. Necessary for every one (filtering that is): no.
"Power Conditioner" for most rack units requires the use of quotations.

 

[dhsierra1]

If ya had a good engineer from the get go that would've been taken care of.

good luck with your approach in life and have a blessed day

 

[aborgman]

Why would some one trust a tacky ass 8$ surge protector with thousands of dollars of equipment. That device's appearance is a good indicator of how reliable it is. Plug into to it. I'll plug into a monster surge protector / electric filter/ snake science/ etc......

Why would I buy a tacky ass 8$ surge protector with thousands of dollars of equipment?

Because I'm an Electrical Engineer, and I've actually seen what is inside both that $8 surge protector and that $100 "power conditioner". They're the same thing.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

So it does cure some noise then. I still don't see why they wouldn't put them in the amps.

This is what's inside $200 plus 'power conditioners'. My Ashdown does have one in it, as well as MOVs.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

This is the 'noise filter' found in under $100 'power conditioners':

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

You won't find a piece of gear made that doesn't have these, unless equipped with a twin-T filter like my Ashdown.

Pricey do-dads like those marketed by Monster are aimed at the 99% of the consumer market who haven't the slightest idea of how sound gear works. If you want better sound take the money that you'd waste on one and get a better amp, speakers or bass.

 

[FC Bass]

Inside of a Samson Powerbrite:

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I have no idea what the inside does/doesn't do...
It's great to have the "master" power switch in front of the rack and the outlets at about the same depth as my other rackgear, also I love the lights and the ability to see directly what's coming in and out. (V and A)
That's why I bought it and ditched the 19 inch powerstrip that I used before:

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Makes my racksystem look cleaner and more easy to use

EDIT: 10 amps max. This may not be adequate.

This made me go

first, because my system (two full tube Mesa amps and lots of effect/router stuff) takes about 6A. Then I realized I'm on this side of the pond (220V)

 

[will33]

Well, I don't know what everything is, but it's not as complicated as it looks. The board with the green donut on it is incoming power, transformer and distribution to the rest of the unit. The blue box is for the dimmer switch. Some of that middle board amounts to a built in ampere and volt meter and to control the readout/display on the front. There also a circuit breaker. Some of the other stuff is beyond me, but it is a little more involved than a power strip.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Well, I don't know what everything is

I do. The circuit board with the integrated circuits drives the display readout. The filtering is done by the circuit board on the right, which consists of a few ten cent capacitors and a five dollar choke.