• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Intros where it's hard to find the "1"

#61
And I just scored Money out in 7/8, too. See attachment (I haven't notated the swing, btw - just keeping it simple). I was going to do Tom Sawyer in 7/4 next (seriously). :D

Like I said, the top number can tell you about the basic pulse/rhythm of the tune (but not how it's split up, except by convention). The bottom number just tells you how it's written out, really.
 

Attachments

  • Money 7 eight.jpg
    Money 7 eight.jpg
    19.8 KB · Views: 104
#62
"Caroline, No" by the Beach Boys has one of those types of intros.

On of my bands' songs (Homecoming, which you can get to through the link in my sig) is like that in the recorded version. We have a different drummer now that plays it somewhat more straight.
 
#64
agreatheight said:
I hate that intro.

If I am having trouble "picking" up on intros that start off the one, I ask the drummer politely to click the song in from one. Solves 95% of issues.
Click to expand...
Winner. ;)

If you get a count in, then you're fine. Although Rock and Roil by Led Zep can still cause a few issues, in my experience. But that was sorted in an earlier post.
 
#70
jeff5311 said:
Tool - The Pot - YouTube

oh... and i still don't get how to count this one (the intro). i'm not a huge tool fan, but this song, even with its odd time changes just rocks.
Click to expand...

Maynard sings "who..." on the 1 (count 16)
Then sings "eye..." on the next 1 of 16
Then sings "rob..." on the next 1 of 16
Then sings "soap..." on the next 1 of the last 16.

My band play it, and our singer taps it out on his waist as I watch, so I know exactly when to kick in in the D-string as the second line comes in.

Something like this...thumb, 1st finger, thumb, 2nd finger, thumb, 3rd finger, thumb, 4th finger. When he's done this twice, I hit the string in time with his thumb and we're away.

Not the purest method, but it works!

So yes, sounds more unusual than it actually is, but that's the genius of the song...taking a straight 4 count and turning it into something very clever indeed.
 
#74
One that always gets me is this:

Deep Purple - Maybe I'm a Leo

Once it's been 'round the block, I'm there, but Ian Paice's intro throws me every time & I hear the riff as a weird bouncy thing with syncopated drums. Odd. Van Halen's take on 'You Really Got Me' does it as well.

From a transcription point of view, Bobby Timmons' "Moanin" drove me nuts. It's dead easy to play by ear, but doesn't work if you start writing the bar on the 1. Start on the 2 however...
 
#75
#78
Well ... I have to shime in for the tempo thing.


7/8 and 7/4 is not the same thing and won't ever be the same.

7/8 imply seven 8th in one bar while 7/4 imply seven 4th really not the same thing. Also the 7/8 will feel in three while the 7/4 feel binary even if you do a triplet.

Also a 7/8 will have those strong beat : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
While a 7/4 will have those strong beat : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
 
#79
tZer said:
I think that holds true for both dividing it into 2 bars of 3/4 or 3 bars of 2/4 - it's that you can subdivide it evenly - and the accent pattern helps to identify how. One version is 'straight', the other 'swings'.

As Bassybill pointed out - technically you could just say "in 9" and have done with it - which would have avoided all this confusing discussion - but isn't the confusing discussion where the fun is?

Further, and again supporting Bassybill's comment - the importance isn't so much in the playing, it's a mechanism that makes writing it more convenient. Rather than having to fill the page with all sorts of barred 8ths/16ths - then having to resort to 32nd and 64ths when things get really fast, using a 4 as the unit opens up the option to use simple 8th and 16th notes for quicker phrases.

Using an 8 (or 16) in as the unit can save you from having to make a lot of 'triplet' based or dotted notations.

Look at Stevie Wonder's "Master Blaster" (in 12/8)

MN0075139.gif



Again... I think...
Click to expand...
I dunno 'bout this one Teez. I've always counted this one as a very slow 4/4 with the bass drum kicking straight eights, even though there's a double time swing eight feel over the top of it. Even the musical interlude passages count out straight ahead.

The reggae beat has an ongoing argument going on about how one truly counts the "feel" for this groove. I'm of the camp that bass and drums play a slow 4/4 underneath with the main accent being the typical 2 & 4 backbeat; the other instruments emphsizing the offbeats - the "and" of each beat. The other instruments playing double time over the top makes the main accent sound like: 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, but IMO it's really: 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

I think whoever wrote out the sheet music for "Master Blaster" used the 12/8 to emphasize the swinging eight note feel. But realistically, if one was to strictly follow this notation, all jazz charts would also be written in a form of triplet time. In jazz the eighths are written "straight", but it is accepted the style calls for the eighth notes to be "swung".

I hope this post even makes sense... I'm not the best at 'splainin' what I mean! ;) That's why I don't teach! :D


To the guy that posted The Beatles "Me & My Monkey" = +1.
I think they did that intro by sheer luck or pure feel and just left it as good. There is no way to really count it, but it's pretty much played off of the blazing guitar riff. The drums feel like they are accenting the off beats of cut time in the first verse before it finally settles in to a "normal" 4/4 groove about eight (sixteen cut) bars in.
I always felt they coulda done more with that whole intro into 1st verse, but it is cool how it kinda feels like it turns the beat around. But then again, they *are* The Beatles!! :D ;) :cool: :bassist: :hyper:
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back