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Intros where it's hard to find the "1"

#101
Alvaro Martín Gómez A.;11456747 said:
EDIT: How about this one? After all these years, I'm not sure about what happens at the 8th measure (0:17 in the video). A 7/8 measure? I wouldn't have any doubts if that came from Rush or Tool. But coming from Aerosmith, I don't know what to think.
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I hear no anomalous bars in that intro. Straight 4 all the way... I think it's just that the swelled vocals come in off the down beat that makes it sound off. But it's a straight 4 count all the way through to my ear.
 
#102
I've never had any two drummers handle the intro to Hendrix's "Red House" the same way. With one guy (long since fired), I don't think he ever put "1" in the same place in 4 years of playing it. We eventually decided it would be easier to replace him than to figure it out.
 
#106
ric stave said:
The Police - Spirits In The Material World - easy to have that bass line turned around in your head (an 1/8th note off) and once you think you have it, it's a real b@#$&* to 'relearn/refeel' it.
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That was the first example that came to mind for me, and for precisely that reason! I remember the first 20 or so times I heard that tune I absolutely could not figure out where the downbeat was, it just suprised the crap out of me every time I heard it. But once I learned what they were doing, it's now impossible for me to hear it "wrong" anymore!

Two more great examples imho:

Television's "Marquee Moon" -- perhaps a bit obvious, but it still will mess wit yo mind the first time you hear it.
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Pat Martino's "M'wandishi" (written by drummer Kenwood Dennard) -- it's not so much that you can't find the one as you can't find the feel based on that drum & bass intro. The first ~8 bars are this nasty, dark, angular, almost stop-time geometric skronk. And then the melody enters and you're like "huh?!?! where did that come from?", it's a happy, sing-songy, up-tempo dance ditty...yet in hindsight it makes perfect sense with the intro. Still freaks me out every time I hear it, and I've been listening to that tune for 35 years!
Pat Martino-M'wandishi - YouTube
 
#107
christoph h. said:
Hmm... I'm sorry, but I think the discussion about 7/8 and and 7/4 is missing one important aspect. The pulse that is felt is what's important, any notation is just a crude way to put what we hear into something that can be communicated in the written form.

Now, take a look here:

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Please note the example about 3/4 vs. 6/8. Both have "six eights", but they are not the same at all.

7/8 is a compound meter, divided into one group of 3 and 2 groups of 2.

So back to "pulse" and how music is felt.

Every drummer I know will interpret 7/4 and 7/8 very differently. 7/4 will feel "even", while 7/8 will always feel "uneven" because there is one "pulse" that is longer than the others.

By the way, to me "The sound of Muzak" is in 7/4 and not 7/8 for the reasons stated above.
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I agree with your first remark about notation just being a way to write down music in a convenient form and I'd also agree that 3/4 and 6/8 are conventionally different. But I still don't think that the intrinsic differences you describe between 7/4 and 7/8 actually exist. The seven can get divided up pretty much anyway at all in either time signature.
 
#114
No sure why I never had a problem with Sex on Fire, but I've played it with lots of bands and many seem to have a hard time with it. I think sometimes you just hear it first time out, and then it's not an issue.

Hardest 'finding the 1' song I've ever encountered is Zep's Celebration Day . I heard the beginning of that song was an edit and there really isn't a difinitive 1. Although some seem to somehow find (or think) they find it. :)
 
#116
To me, 7/8 often feels like 4/4 with an 8th note missing, and 7/8 feels like 6/4 with a 4th note too many. Just throwing that out there.

Come to speak of it, 6/4 is a really odd duck as well, there are very vew songs I know that make it flow and feel natural.
 
#117
Two that come to mind are:
Alan Parsons "I Robot" (what a cool intro -- glad the drummer was the one that had to worry about that one)
Here it is in case you do not remember: Listen starting about 1:49
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U2 - "The Streets have No Name" - This one was tough to get everybody on the same page
 

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