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Irreversible climate damage is imminent

Legal mandates....which are basically laws stating "you must purchase and use "X" product or technology". Would be no different than if some law were passed saying "you must purchase and use "X" bass because I think that bass provides you with sufficient amount of musical enjoyment while not harvesting endangered trees", or whatever. Me either owning or having invested in a company that makes said bass---sweet deal for me. Having gov't confiscate the money of taxpaying workers to help prop up this otherwise unprofitable bass---even better for me.

What about areas which are subsidised, so much so that alternatives are unable to compete? (this applies to both the 'green' and 'non-green' tech). Ok, it isn't forcing people to buy something, directly, but it's artificially forcing a market bias and some of your tax money into it, whether you like it or not.


I'm not against finding different ways to do what we do that are less stressfull on the earth....I'm actually for them. I just highly distrust the motivations of those who are trying to force this particular way of going about it on us. We only get one Earth. Our lifetimes here are but a flash in th pan in the grand scheme of things and we need to leave her in good shape for those that come after us.

In our moden society, there really is no such thing as "green" living. There may be some ways of doing things that are a little (or even a lot) less harmful than others, but short of us all living like Grizzly Adams, none of them are "green".


I guess what upsets me the most is that this whole "green" concept has been reduced to nothing more than a marketing slogan.

If we really wanted to live in harmony with the earth, none of us would be doing the things we do or using the things we use, including me, typing this out on a smartphone, right now..

I think we should probably use the term "green-er", the majority of folks are looking more towards progressive moves towards things which have a lower impact, small changes over the long term, not looking to say we're turning off all the leccy in the country next Tuesday and that from then on we'd need to live in bamboo huts with monkey butlers...


...I want a monkey butler...
 
May his glory shine for none to see...

Dude block me. There is no need to be a victim. SO far it's working great for me with who I have blocked.

So sorry too, if you can badger and say what you want and I can't reply with what is necessary then you get on the block list. Not my ideal way of doing things but some of you make this necessary. I did not point a gun to anyone's head and make anyone hit the report button. Those members whoever they are did it ALL by themselves. You know what what they say about heat and kitchens.
 
The Atmosphere
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Yep. Small but effective.

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Start reading.
 
Dude block me. There is no need to be a victim. SO far it's working great for me with who I have blocked.



So sorry too, if you can badger and say what you want and I can't reply with what is necessary then you get on the block list. Not my ideal way of doing things but some of you make this necessary. I did not point a gun to anyone's head and make anyone hit the report button. Those members whoever they are did it ALL by themselves. You know what what they say about heat and kitchens.


Irony meter off the scale. The guy who blocks anyone who calls out his BS is using the old hot kitchen metaphor.

Wowser. But then, he ain't gonna read this...
 
We've trapped ourselves in a system that will cause our downfall. There is no way out at this point. I'm doing my part as much as possible but realise it is futile (no car, use probably 5 times less water than the average person, recycle, etc id say no kids but it would be a lie, thats not the reason i don't have them). I do it so that morally i feel alright, it's doing nothing otherwise. Evolved aliens might visit the earth someday (oh wait they are already arent they? :-p) and find out what happened to us and will come to the inevitable conclusion that we were a bunch of ****ing morons.
 
Yep. Small but effective.

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Start reading.


I read this from the comments....

John M. Quinn

As a physicist/geophysicist who has worked for the U. S. Naval Oceanographic Office and the U. S. Geological Survey for more than 30 years, and who has spent the last 8 years examining the Global Warming phenomenon (the first two of which were at the U. S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration), I have come to two conclusions.

First Global Warming is real. Second, CO2 regardless of its origin (i.e., either natural or anthropogenic) does not drive Global Warming.

The CO2 Enhanced Greenhouse Effect Theory is totally irrelevant to the Global Warming phenomenon. Why? One finds on the secular time scale that both of the X- and Y- component temporal, annual-means profiles of the Earth’s Orientation mimic exactly the Global Temperature Anomaly (GTA) annual means profile On the decade time scale one finds that the GTA mimics the Geomagnetic Dipole variations and the variations in the Earths Anomalous Rotation Rate [i.e., Excess Length of Day (ELOD) Annual Means]. The Dipole Field, the GTA and the ELOD all have a 60 year period on the decade time scale. There are many other such correlations on both time scales.

Thus, if CO2 were driving the GTA, and given the geophysical parameters that change over time in sync with the GTA, CO2 enhancements would reasonably have to drive the Earth’s dynamo which creates the Dipole Field and somehow also affects the Earth’s orientation and its rotation rate. But CO2 cannot do this because it has no pondermotive force associated with it. Furthermore, CO2 on the decade time scale lags the GTA by about 9 years according to Mauna Loa, HI Observatory data collected since 1955, which is a period of time that is at the height of anthropogenic activity. Furthermore, on the millennium time scale the time lag averages about 800 years (Monin et. al., 2001). Therefore, if CO2 were the driver of Global Warming through the Enhanced Greenhouse Effect, then it would have to violate the Principle of Cause and Effect.

I have a short paperback book that explains this in more detail. It should be available in the book stores (e.g., Barnes and Nobel, Amazon.com, etc.) in late December 2009, or January 2010. Its title is:

GLOBAL WARMING: Geophysical Counterpoints to the Enhanced Greenhouse Theory

Publisher: Dorrance Publishing Co., Inc., Pittsburgh, PA, USA

ISBN: 978-1-4349-0581-9

While I do not know what precisely (though I know a little) causes Global Warming, I do know what does not cause it. CO2 and other greenhouse gases, anthropogenic or otherwise, are merely passive players that, like the GTA, are driven by other more dynamic forces associated with Earth’s core, the Sun, and even the Cosmos (referring to the Danish theory of cloud formation), all of which act, react, and interact in a very complex manner.

Note that the IPCC concentrates on Solar Irradiance, but ignores other solar energies such as that associated with Solar Magnetic Flux that has more than doubled since 1900. Gravity is another player in the Global Warming picture. Also note that Mars has global warming comparable to Earth’s without CO2 (Fenton, et. al., Nature, 2008). There are no Martians to either generate or enhance CO2 on Mars.

John M. Quinn
Lakewood, CO
USA
 
Wow. What a pile of horse manure.

If there is a 60 year cycle the underlying trend is still upwards. Was the earths temp this warm in 1940?, 1880? 1820? No. The rest of his logic falls down there. He makes the assumption that because CO2 doesn't explain every nook and cranny of the temp anomaly it must therefore have NO influence. That's just poor logic.

FWIW Grant Foster has done a lot of work running statistical analases on periodic oscillation. There's not much there:

http://tamino.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/8000-years-of-amo/
 
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http://www.ibtimes.com/winter-weath...ds-so-far-snowfall-totals-temperature-records

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http://www.c3headlines.com/

There is plenty of evidence, recorded and observable, that there has been no warming in the last 17+ years. And there has been no proof to support the hypothesis of AGW/ACC. The models, which are the basis to the Climate Change alarmists position, predicted steady warming and cannot explain the cooling trend over the last 17 years. Also there is plenty of blatantly observable evidence showing that there is cooling occurring. The models are inaccurate, thus the hypothesis based on them are invalid.
But that is OK. That is science.
 
It's not hard to understand at all...so why do the fear mongers attribute every extreme "weather event" to climate change...and ignore the ones that show little or no change?

^ this. Hurricane numbers were down last year. Tornado numbers were at record lows. Yet you still hear claims from alarmists that there are more of them due to climate change.

Climate on Earth has been in constant change for a couple billion years. Life on Earth has had to adapt to survive. That is our job. Adapt or die.
 
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http://www.ibtimes.com/winter-weath...ds-so-far-snowfall-totals-temperature-records

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

http://www.c3headlines.com/

There is plenty of evidence, recorded and observable, that there has been no warming in the last 17+ years. And there has been no proof to support the hypothesis of AGW/ACC. The models, which are the basis to the Climate Change alarmists position, predicted steady warming and cannot explain the cooling trend over the last 17 years. Also there is plenty of blatantly observable evidence showing that there is cooling occurring. The models are inaccurate, thus the hypothesis based on them are invalid.
But that is OK. That is science.

Hmm who to trust? Randoms on the internet, or peer-reviewed journal-published scientists who actually study the phenomenon?