Yes, groove can be taught, however it is up to the person being taught to execute it. Some folk need to work harder at it than others.
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Is it possible to teach "Groove"?
- Thread starter mambo4
- Start date
While I believe that groove can be taught, it is usually practiced in the same way that "everyone" can "learn" to drive a car- there are those that are basically hanging on for dear life, while there are those that never have a problem their entire lives and are amazing behind the wheel.
Learning it is one thing, but FEELING it is another.
Learning it is one thing, but FEELING it is another.
Groove is playing in a way that supports the rhythmic style of the music. It's part of all music, including genres that don't use that term. Of course it can be taught. I've taken music lessons -- mostly classical -- and sat in at my kids' lessons. Of course rhythmic style is discussed in those lessons.
Groove goes hand in hand with technique. You can't play with good rhythm if your fingers aren't in the right place at the right time. Mastering your instrument so you're not wasting brain power on the mechanics of playing, and can think about things like rhythm and tone, is probably the best way to learn "groove" for most players. Listening to great musicians and thinking about what they are doing, is another.
On the other hand, claiming to have a shortcut to "groove" that doesn't involve learning other aspects of musicianship, is probably short-changing you in the long run.
Groove goes hand in hand with technique. You can't play with good rhythm if your fingers aren't in the right place at the right time. Mastering your instrument so you're not wasting brain power on the mechanics of playing, and can think about things like rhythm and tone, is probably the best way to learn "groove" for most players. Listening to great musicians and thinking about what they are doing, is another.
On the other hand, claiming to have a shortcut to "groove" that doesn't involve learning other aspects of musicianship, is probably short-changing you in the long run.
for my music education graduate work, part of it included looking at "informal learning," self directed/by ear / along with friends learning. a lot of the research on this topic suggests that this method actually does result in musicians who play with a better feel.
if I find some of the resources I'll post them here, but they're long and boring to those of us who don't teach music for a living.
if I find some of the resources I'll post them here, but they're long and boring to those of us who don't teach music for a living.
Some people seem to have it naturally, some people develop it, and some people just can't master it. I don't think it can be taught, but it can be learned. How do you teach a feel? Maybe point out some players that really groove and say, "do that."
Interesting that you have not disputed your failure as a teacher, or the point I made, but instead went to baseless personal attacks.
While acknowledging there are those very rare cases of people who just cannot learn rhythm, perhaps due to brain injury -
repeated failures to teach rhythm , and the crystallized belief that it's "absolutely not" possible to those who don't already get it, is indeed a sign you might not be best suited for teaching music. I know that feels personal, but it is not. I am not insulting you personally.
If an English teacher believed that grammar was unteachable to those who didn't just "get it", that would be a subpar English teacher, right?
In my experience, it is possible to get people with no real internal rhythm grooving together. I have done this many times. I assume the bar we are measuring by is not "perfect rhythm at all times", as even professional musicians are seldom capable of that.
We could quibble about what point the rhythm has been fully taught - at what point self-sufficiency takes over - and how to measure the progress to that goal - but you are incorrect that rhythm is impossible to teach to those who don't already "get it". Your wife is wrong also.
Holding a belief that this is impossible is not a good attitude, and cuts you off from possibilities that could otherwise manifest.
If there are circumstances, such as time and number of students, that are making this equation nearly unsolvable for you and your students, then that is not the failing of either of you.
I will see if I can find some of those articles and post them.
from what I remember, the basis was studies done around the mid 1990s. they interviewed dozens of rock/pop musicians and asked about how they learned music. the overwhelming theme was, what would now be called in the business, informal learning. they then formulated how to best replicate this in school classrooms, I believe mostly in / around England. To my recollection the end result was a bump in enthusiasm, but also a recognizable trademark that the students learning this way tend to have a better "feel" - because they learned using their ears, and replicating what they hear. Very much like learning to speak with an authentic accent in a foreign language. If you are hearing and emulating James brown, god bless - you'll almost certainly be playing with a nice groove and feel. if you are learning in a classroom with a rigid method book (and a dull teacher) learning that "accent" of playing with a good feel may be stifled.
it's likely I mixed up some of these details, but this is just how I remember it. If it means anything, students in my classroom have to play along with me on drums and all sorts of loops / grooves somewhat regularly, and I guarantee it makes a difference. definitely comes easier to some kids than others. but the idea that someone "can't" is funny to me - would we say that about speaking a language with an appropriate accent? probably not - I really do think the two are the same skill expressed in very different mediums.
Social skills. Whether you are right or wrong, you still insulted him personally.
This reflects exactly my experience with Cuban music. For thew first two years in my salsa band I don't think I really "got it" - but eventually, after exposure, reading, listening, and especially learning the the other rhythm section parts, I was able to execute the part with a feel that was appropriate. Did I become Cahcaho? no, but I was able to move significantly in that direction.
It also contradicts the "either you have it or you don't " crowd.
"either you are capable of learning it, or you aren't" may be closer to the truth
"either your instructors are capable of teaching it, or they aren't" may be closer still
I rather agree. It's not a single definable thing, but a composite of teachable components.
And yet, it's an omnipresent descriptive that most players would place at the top of the pyramid of musical importance.
My whole problem with the common reasoning behind the "no" responses :
- "either you have it or you don't"
- "you have to find it for your self"
- "it only comes with listening / experience"
- How do I tell If I "don't have it"?
- How do I find it in myself ?
- What qualities should I listen for?
- As I gain experience, what should I focus on?
rather than back away from such a vague, ill defined yet somehow supremely important concept.
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I like what some people say in here, I think my summary would be this: Groove can be LEARNED but not necessarily taught. You can teach the principles of it, but you only really learn it through the experience of building it through playing.
It took me awhile but, I've been successful in teaching him how to; sit, stay, rollover, come, fetch and shake.
As far as playing Bass, he's gotten some slap technique down with his tail but, Grooves nails are an issue, especially on the fretless.
As far as playing Bass, he's gotten some slap technique down with his tail but, Grooves nails are an issue, especially on the fretless.
