Is it possible to teach "Groove"?

[jamro217]

This reflects exactly my experience with Cuban music. For thew first two years in my salsa band I don't think I really "got it" - but eventually, after exposure, reading, listening, and especially learning the the other rhythm section parts, I was able to execute the part with a feel that was appropriate. Did I become Cahcaho? no, but I was able to move significantly in that direction.

It also contradicts the "either you have it or you don't " crowd.
"either you are capable of learning it, or you aren't" may be closer to the truth
"either your instructors are capable of teaching it, or they aren't" may be closer still



I rather agree. It's not a single definable thing, but a composite of teachable components.
And yet, it's an omnipresent descriptive that most players would place at the top of the pyramid of musical importance.

My whole problem with the common reasoning behind the "no" responses :

• "either you have it or you don't"
• "you have to find it for your self"
• "it only comes with listening / experience"

Is that I see it as an abdication of responsibility on the part of the teacher to actually teach.

• How do I tell If I "don't have it"?
• How do I find it in myself ?
• What qualities should I listen for?
• As I gain experience, what should I focus on?

As mentioned elsewhere , there are teachers who have attempted to tackle the problem,
rather than back away from such a vague, ill defined yet somehow supremely important concept.

Were you a bassist and a musician before you tackled Cuban music? If so, the latent ability to groove may have lying dormant in your system until you coaxed it out. You may have been taught how to approach the new musical style, but your internal talent allowed you to succeed at it. This is what I meant by saying groove couldn't be taught, but could be cultivated. The seed must be planted before it can grow. Nothing can grow without a seed.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Groove is a crappy term for dance music of funk.

You can't groove by yourself, you need to be at least two to make it happen.

When you look at a classical music sheet music, you'll see identification that tell you how you should approach it. To me this is the only part that makes you an artist is the interpretation but you can't make the piece of music a samba if you didn't learn the notes to play and the rythm figure you have to play.

It is like an actor. You have to learn the text before you can say your thing angry, happy, funny etc

A lot of player try to be artist before they know the poopie.

Also at the end of the day it is all music, it is like all those style of music are like accent... people in the USA speak differently from people from Canada or Great Brittan ... but they all speak English.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Yikes....

 

[Whousedtoplay]

You can't groove by yourself, you need to be at least two to make it happen..

What?????
Are you talking about "Tango"?

But Clef is my friend and he can post anything he wants at TB.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

What?????
Are you talking about "Tango"?

But Clef is my friend and he can post anything he wants at TB.

k

 

[Paulabass]

Groove cannot be taught in a class room, or student and teacher sitting in a little studio. It's taught rocking with a good drummer.
Some people have innate built in groove, others have to nurture it, but it can be taught/absorbed in the right situation.

 

[RustyAxe]

I said "yes" ... but what really matters is what the listener understands and applies, if they can. That's not so cut and dried.

 

[Groove Master]

To me Groove is another term that is used to describe a well-played rhythmic piece of music. Either it is tight or loose, it is meant to be danceable and emotionally involved in its own way.

And yes it can be taught by professional musicians and teachers. They will guide the students to play and interpret, develop and listen to the right parts and ingredients inside the music that will enhance the...groove.

 

[toprekoms]

I hope one day you can find one at all. Social skills are obviously not your forte.

Y

I hope you both find jobs one day better suited to your abilities.

I hope you both find jobs one day better suited to your abilities.

Your social skills are better? Making cynical comments to people that you don't know would qualify as poor social skills to me. Get off of your high horse and go practice. I'm sure you need it. How's that for poor social skills?

 

[Badwater]

Yes, and will depend on who's teaching and if they are a good communicator.
And who's learning, are they good learners who can think and adapt. Or do they need to be told exactly what to do and think.

 

[mambo4]

I said "yes" ... but what really matters is what the listener understands and applies, if they can.

Fair point - "groove" is so conveniently ill defined as to be much in the ear of the listener.
I can tap my feet an bob my head to Duck Dunn all day long
But some may be bored to tears by an old Staxx track.
And offer up Pink Floyd's Money or Chris Squire's bass line in the B part of Roundabout as an example of "groove".

 

[mambo4]

To me Groove is another term that is used to describe a well-played rhythmic piece of music.

Pretty much. When you start to take it apart, Groove simply equals "Played very well"
And yet for some that is not an emotionally charged enough definition.

 

[Russell L]

I think you can teach it, but you can't teach feeling it. That has to come to the player while using the teaching method. My advice is to play a passage or lick repetively until that feeling starts to arise. Play it til you drop and let all your muscles relax into it.

 

[mambo4]

I think you can teach it, but you can't teach feeling it.

This sentiment is echoed in many posts.
Many agree that groove can be deconstructed and individual components usefully taught
but still hold that there is some special something - usually called "feel" - that defies analysis and instruction.

I feel that's not quite true - It's just more challenge to discuss
Our emotional contribution to what we play
and what things help or hinder expression
is not something we have such a common language for.

I always tip my hat to Anthony Wellington for striving to communicate about music on that level.

 

[Russell L]

I hear ya, mambo4, but what I mean by feel isn't the emotion, but rather the physical side of it. I guess it's like when we practice a part until we can play it. I remember once playing a simple one-mearure thingy over and over while I tried to think of some lyrics to go with it. After awhile I felt my fingers settle in with the notes, which allowed my wrist to start settling in, which led to my arm, then my shoulder, and the rest of me. Physically, I had gotten into that groove, although I wasn't particularly mentally or emotionally worked up.

You're right, this is a challenge to discuss.

My best, pal.

 

[IamGroot]

 

[Jeff Bonny]

"Groove is a reward for having learned well." Brilliant.

 

[mambo4]

Hard to argue with "Learn the notes first"
Yet Jeff appears to be an advocate of keeping "groove" out of an educational framework

 

[IamGroot]

Jeff is just one of many wise men feeling up the elephant.

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[Jeff Bonny]

Hard to argue with "Learn the notes first"
Yet Jeff appears to be an advocate of keeping "groove" out of an educational framework

I'm kinda buying the "do the work and the groove will follow" line of thinking. I guess that'd mean it is possible to teach groove by teaching everything but groove......