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Is it the Bass, or the Player...

#22
If a player changes basses or amps their tone will change but if you ask me they players overall character and sound pretty much remains the same. I think a players feel comes through no matter what they are playing and I think that is more distinguishable than there tone.
 
#26
AudioDwebe said:
How much of the sound a player gets is from the player himself/herself, and how much is the instrument?
Click to expand...

I know this is all in fun and it's no fun to say so, but there's very little universal meaning that can be taken from trying to apply percentages of contribution, other than illustrating the basic idea that "the player is a considerable factor" or "gear is only part of how a particular player sounds."

The difference in "the sound" between players is the physics of how they play, not some completely intangible difference that's based on simply being different individuals. Some of those differences in the physics are technique-based and some are physiology-based.

I think what's better than the usual hypothetical scenario of taking a player's gear from them and giving them a Squier would be if you were to take a given bass player and listen to them on their "signature gear," say David Dyson, playing his Skjold, through his amp and pedals, with his settings, and then you hand that bass to a hypothetical, competent bass player with remarkably similar technique and physiology, and back-to-back, listen to the other player, playing the same piece of music, the sound will be completely similar, not 90% different...or 60% different. Given the proper hypothetical player, the signature sound would surely be indistinguishable...it couldn't help but be.

There's a continuum of the significance of physiology (which is the thing that can be completely unique) in producing signature sound, with singing being at the top and bass playing being somewhere lower. Sax would be somewhere in between.
 
#28
To me it is 100% gear. Bass, strings, pickup, amp etc. What differenciate a player from another is the notes choice, a special lick or a fetich technic etc.

EQ can get you every where you want. But you can't be Wooten because you don,t think like him.
 
#29
I'm giving 75% of the credit to the player. Yes some brands are simply better than others but my thinking is this. After picking up to start playing again after a decade long layoff. I finally found my self in a position to afford a fender. 2 US models, and I'm basically re-learning most things, it doesn't make me play better. I've seen too many teenagers pick up a cheaper Squire or Soundgear and just rip them up. Yeah, I can afford a nice bass, but it almost seems unfair when I see the kids put me to shame and I just wonder how much better they would sound on my gear. But I'm not feeling too sorry for myself, because IT IS coming back. :-)
 
#30
drpepper said:
I think what's better than the usual hypothetical scenario of taking a player's gear from them and giving them a Squier would be if you were to take a given bass player and listen to them on their "signature gear," say David Dyson, playing his Skjold, through his amp and pedals, with his settings, and then you hand that bass to a hypothetical, competent bass player with remarkably similar technique and physiology, and back-to-back, listen to the other player, playing the same piece of music, the sound will be completely similar, not 90% different...or 60% different. Given the proper hypothetical player, the signature sound would surely be indistinguishable...it couldn't help but be.
Click to expand...

I would agree that given a long-lost twin or similar (which is what I think you're saying, yes?), with the same degee of chops would sound remarkably alike. But my question was leaning more towards the question of just how much does the bass, itself, contribute to the sound of the player and whether or not a given player can get basses from different manufacturers to sound similar to what he/she normally plays.

For instance, would Dyson be able to get his signature sound from another bass (or other basses, for that matter), with the use of the right string/amp/pedal/etcetera combination? And I'm not talking about getting a bass that retails for $179 to sound similar to one costing $4500. Just comparable basses, and how alike can they all be made to sound.
 
#31
"the sound is in my hands, man."
Jaco Pastorius

"I'm gonna sound like Ray Brown on any bass; it's just a matter of how hard I have to work to get there."
Ray Brown


It seems guys are always looking for that next piece of gear that's going to make them sound great, when you've already got the greatest gear in the world on the ends of your arms and the sides of your head.
 
#32
AudioDwebe said:
I would agree that given a long-lost twin or similar (which is what I think you're saying, yes?), with the same degee of chops would sound remarkably alike.
Click to expand...

I was trying to say that I don't think the aspects of a particular person that create a sound are "magical." I wasn't so much trying to create an unrealistic scenario, just trying to cover the difference that makes a difference.

A petite female with tiny hands is likely to create a different sound than a big guy with big hands by virtue of that difference.

AudioDwebe said:
...would Dyson be able to get his signature sound from another bass (or other basses, for that matter), with the use of the right string/amp/pedal/etcetera combination?
Click to expand...

If you imagine that he was asked a different question here, it sounds like the answer he would give is "Yes. To a degree, sounds I like can come from a range of basses. EQing and futzing with pedals can give me my sound, but MY bass gives me consistency in getting my sound"

David Dyson @ BBL Promo Clinic - YouTube
 
#35
the amp is a huge factor aswell. I play a no-name 5 string with active eq that i picked up for 150 bucks. Im running the bass through a mesa boogie m9 carbine with a powerhouse 2x12 cab.

Dmusic148, I like that last quote brother.
 
#36
I think it's mostly the player. 90/10 might be a good ratio. Bela Fleck can easily make a cheap banjo sound good, just as Victor Wooten can a cheap bass and Brad Paisley can a cheap Telecaster. I've had personal experiences where my guitar definitely produced sounds in another player's hands that I am not capable of recreating...sometimes something as seemingly simple as one note played extremely well with tons of mojo-filled technique.

Case in point: A couple of years ago, at a gig where I was on guitar, a guitarist friend came in during our 2nd set...a retired touring pro who had sat in with us a few times before, but always with his own guitar. This guy had worked the entirety of his pro years backing an internationally known songwriter/singer/television/movie star. He played on the albums, co wrote some of the songs, and toured the world year after year until that artist's accidental death in 1997. Then he retired from touring and settled down to follow a new musical path. On this particular night, I saw him arrive and motioned to him to come on up. I handed him the guitar I was playing; a 61 RI Gibson SG running thru a Z Carmen Ghia head into a 2 x 12 cab, no pedals, just guitar and amp, and went to the back of the room and listened. What I heard was something I'd never heard before from that guitar and what he did with it was nothing short of amazing. He didn't play any fancy machine gun runs or complicated chord work. On the contrary; every chord, every note, every riff, every lick, every nuance of his playing was filled with a level of fretting and picking technique that was beyond my capability while still within my wheelhouse of understanding and recognition. It was a great lesson in why a pro is a pro. After a couple of songs, when he handed the guitar back to me, I just held it for a moment and looked at it...kinda like the scene in Back to the Future where Michael J Fox hands the 335 back to Marvin Berry.
 
#38
To the OP's original point, if I prefer a sound produced by a famous player, how much does the equipment used influence the ability to get close to that sound? I'd say a fair bit when you start talking about players with distinctive sounds. It would be nearly impossible (for many reasons) for me to get close to Stanley Clarke's Alembic sounds using my Geddy Lee Jazz. However, it's remarkably easy to sound like Geddy (to the best of my ability) with gear that's modeled after his. Of course, ripping off all the other things that make up Geddy's sound like hand position, situational use of just one finger on the right hand, and playing Rush music 'til I'm blue in the face is also a big part of it.

I think all basses and amps have a specific range of what they are good at. While that range can be broad and cover a lot of styles, and while there is overlap; there is still going to be equipment that simply can't achieve or produce good sounds out of their strike zones. Artists with distinctive styles spend a lot of time auditioning equipment and trying out various combinations of things to arrive at their sound. To say that equipment doesn't matter is incorrect. If if didn't matter then professionals wouldn't spend so much time working to find what works best for them. In short, in real life a great player doesn't simply show up on stage and play any bass rig that happens to be there (most of the time). They play a rig that they spent thousands of hours building and evolving over a lifetime to suit their style and tastes.
 
#40
I realize that the stock sentiment here is that it is mostly the player. I agree. However, as a producer, I'm always "mad scientist-ing" with gear (i.e preamps, plug-ins, etc.). I have tried many basses, and I find that equipment can augment one's style/approach/tone. As far as my "movie" goes, I like to choose the proper bass for the situation (nothing strange, new, or innovative). When I play my P with flats with a keyboard player, maybe a guitar, and the groove is the "reason" (I know;it always is), I play with a certain state of mind. When I play Rock with my RIC, the ability that it has to articulate/cut through a busy mix, allows me to walk a different path. I could do it with either, but somehow the equipment seems to enhance the situation. No matter what, it irks me when an audience member says, "That bass sounds good" :rollno:
 

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