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Is plugging a head into a power conditioner bad?
- Thread starter abcdefranklin
- Start date
Is plugging a head into a power conditioner bad? Well, probably not, probably not necessary and a waste of money, unless you invest in a mucho expensive model that doesn't use metal oxide varistors? Who really knows, but I figure if it's so fricken' hard to find out if the more $$$ ones are better, then they probably aren't.
Unless you're gigging, say, Mexico City on a regular basis, I'd guess from what I've read that a power strip with regular old MOV protection is as good as anything. The 800RB also has a fuse, worst case scenario, btw.
Unless you're gigging, say, Mexico City on a regular basis, I'd guess from what I've read that a power strip with regular old MOV protection is as good as anything. The 800RB also has a fuse, worst case scenario, btw.
power "conditioners" are useless, expensive and unnecessary. Just because every rack you see has a furman doesnt mean it is required or even does anything besides put lights on the front and outlets on the back. Power strips with a resetable breakers are much better.
SL waber and Tripplite both make very good products both rackable and loose power bars that actually do reduce background noise in the AC and protect your gear from spikes.
SL-Waber and I believe Middle Atlantic both make plain vanilla "power strip with rack ear" products for much less than Furmans overpriced stuff.
However, I always carry an AC outlet tester to tell me if an unfamiliar outlet is wired right. $5-10 at your hardware store.
About that linked article. Phooey.
Listening to and playing music is NOT about the most accurate reproduction. Tubes are inferior to solidstate (And records to CDs) only if you are looking at charts. We hear with our ears, not our eyes. If it sounds good, it is good. Regardless of signal to noise ratio or distortion specs. I listen to CDs and Ipods daily. Every couple of years I rediscover analog LPs and even audio tape. I was listening to tapes in my car today and you know, there is something there that isnt there with CDs. I think most of the articles points about cables, power etc were very valid. But when he touched on tubes and digital/analog he got out of his depth. But top 8 myths doesnt have the same punch, no?
SL waber and Tripplite both make very good products both rackable and loose power bars that actually do reduce background noise in the AC and protect your gear from spikes.
SL-Waber and I believe Middle Atlantic both make plain vanilla "power strip with rack ear" products for much less than Furmans overpriced stuff.
However, I always carry an AC outlet tester to tell me if an unfamiliar outlet is wired right. $5-10 at your hardware store.
About that linked article. Phooey.
Listening to and playing music is NOT about the most accurate reproduction. Tubes are inferior to solidstate (And records to CDs) only if you are looking at charts. We hear with our ears, not our eyes. If it sounds good, it is good. Regardless of signal to noise ratio or distortion specs. I listen to CDs and Ipods daily. Every couple of years I rediscover analog LPs and even audio tape. I was listening to tapes in my car today and you know, there is something there that isnt there with CDs. I think most of the articles points about cables, power etc were very valid. But when he touched on tubes and digital/analog he got out of his depth. But top 8 myths doesnt have the same punch, no?
There is no mention of that in "Lie #8". I bring this up only because you say ir is "all covered" in this article.
I've heard the Stewart power amp "current choke" story before. I'm not sure what to make of it.
Exactly what type of power conditioner are we talking about? Most reliable sources state that cheap conditioners (not voltage regulators, etc) are simply glorified power strips - no more; no less.
You seem to be contradicting yourself. Aren't the SL-Waber and Tripplite units that reduce background noise and protect from power spikes considered "power conditioners" (albeit perhaps more reasonably priced than Furman stuff)?
so speakers exist in a vacuum and nothing has to be taken into account about them when designing cabs, is that what you're saying?
and honestly, i don't ever see power conditioners in pro audio amp racks.
I'm powering my Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 through a Furman M-8x... Moreso for the convenience of having everything already connected in the rack, and just plugging in one cord when it's showtime, than because I'm worried about a power surge. In any case, is there any potential risk in doing this? Can the use of the power conditioner to power my head cause problems that would be detrimental to the head? It seems like that would defeat the purpose of the Furman all together if this was the case...
In defense of the article, blind tests agree digital is better. i.e.
Invalid Link Removed
"ANALOGUE SOUND RECORDED ONTO A CD IS PRESERVED 100%."
So save your vinyl, record it on a CD, it will sound 100% as good as the vinyl and not wear out.
Sigh...this has been argued before. Read the thread below and see what amp designers from Genz Benz and QSC have to say on the subject as they are frequent contributors to this forum. Then ask yourself why virtually every major amp manufacturer recommends against the use of power conditioners for amplifiers."
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=604492&highlight=conditioners
And insulting another forum member and telling everyone to summarily dismiss his post because you disagree with his professional opinion is bad form regardless of who's right.
Yes the reason is the convenience of having a front switched rack mounted strip and and also for the lights in front.
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
- 278
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- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
Neither do I, and I think we both probably deal with sound providers considerably higher up the food chain than the average player.
Every pro-conditioner argument I've seen comes from one of three sources: Those who make them, those who sell them, and those who believe the advertising copy of the first two.
It's your money. But you should ask Bob Gallien first. If he recommends using anything more than basic surge protection he'd be the first amp manufacturer to do so that I'm aware of.
However incoherently and seven ways at once, not mentioning the class-clown input.
As best as I understand that linked thread -- and this whole vexed question:
The danger to the power amp comes from VOLTAGE REGULATING "power conditioners," not the plain old power strip substitutes, which are not inherently dangerous, just expensive rack versions of the hardware store item.
Is that the bottom line or not?
Here is something to consider. Furman, the maker of fine power conditioners makes a product called the power factor which is specifically designed to have power amps plugged in to them. I see this product as admitted proof that their power conditioners are really not for power amps.
Here is a copy paste from Furmans ad flyer on this product.
Todays AC power is contaminated. Whether you play in a stadium, bar,
or rehearsal space, they all have one thing in common, the AC power is
supplied from your local utility. Whats worse is that the power factor
supplied from your buildings AC outlet is typically poor, thanks to
increasingly overtaxed power lines and raised line impedance.
In fact, the quality of AC power has been so poor for so long, most
musicians have no idea how great their amplifiers could really sound.
When the AC power factor is poor, amplifiers sound muddy because their
power supplies cant deliver when pushed. The scream and cry from a
guitar loses bite and harmonics, bass guitars lose their punch and weight,
keyboards sound nasally, losing clarity, attack, and extension.
Not so with Furmans Power Factor Pro...
The Power Factor Pros Clear Tone Technology actually lowers the AC line
impedance supplied by your wall outlet, while storing energy for peak current
demands. In fact, there are over 45 amps of instantaneous current reserve in
the Power Factor Pro. Additionally, Linear Filtering Technology dramatically
lowers AC line noise to unprecedented levels in the critical audio frequency band.
What does this mean? Just plug in your current starved amplifier, crank up the
volume, and listen to the dynamics, harmonics, and clarity youve been missing!
PF-Pro Features
Clear Tone Technology provides
Power Factor correction with 45
amps peak current reservoir
SMP+ (Series Multi-Stage
Protection Plus) with Extreme
Voltage Shutdown (EVS)
LiFT (Linear Filtering Technology)
with zero ground contamination
Four rear panel outlets
12 amp rating, with circuit breaker
Front panel meter to display
incoming line voltage ranging
from 90 to 128 volts
Now for the ironic twist, This product has been discontinued from Furman.
I use Furman power conditioners for all my audio gear but for my preamps and signal processors only, not power amps. Power amps should be plugged straight into the main power source ( wall or heavy duty ext. cord etc.)
Power conditioners are really nothing more than fancy power strips but I like them for the convenience. They keep my rack neat looking, and they have lights for the front and rear of my rack along with volt meters.
Here is a copy paste from Furmans ad flyer on this product.
Todays AC power is contaminated. Whether you play in a stadium, bar,
or rehearsal space, they all have one thing in common, the AC power is
supplied from your local utility. Whats worse is that the power factor
supplied from your buildings AC outlet is typically poor, thanks to
increasingly overtaxed power lines and raised line impedance.
In fact, the quality of AC power has been so poor for so long, most
musicians have no idea how great their amplifiers could really sound.
When the AC power factor is poor, amplifiers sound muddy because their
power supplies cant deliver when pushed. The scream and cry from a
guitar loses bite and harmonics, bass guitars lose their punch and weight,
keyboards sound nasally, losing clarity, attack, and extension.
Not so with Furmans Power Factor Pro...
The Power Factor Pros Clear Tone Technology actually lowers the AC line
impedance supplied by your wall outlet, while storing energy for peak current
demands. In fact, there are over 45 amps of instantaneous current reserve in
the Power Factor Pro. Additionally, Linear Filtering Technology dramatically
lowers AC line noise to unprecedented levels in the critical audio frequency band.
What does this mean? Just plug in your current starved amplifier, crank up the
volume, and listen to the dynamics, harmonics, and clarity youve been missing!
PF-Pro Features
Clear Tone Technology provides
Power Factor correction with 45
amps peak current reservoir
SMP+ (Series Multi-Stage
Protection Plus) with Extreme
Voltage Shutdown (EVS)
LiFT (Linear Filtering Technology)
with zero ground contamination
Four rear panel outlets
12 amp rating, with circuit breaker
Front panel meter to display
incoming line voltage ranging
from 90 to 128 volts
Now for the ironic twist, This product has been discontinued from Furman.
I use Furman power conditioners for all my audio gear but for my preamps and signal processors only, not power amps. Power amps should be plugged straight into the main power source ( wall or heavy duty ext. cord etc.)
Power conditioners are really nothing more than fancy power strips but I like them for the convenience. They keep my rack neat looking, and they have lights for the front and rear of my rack along with volt meters.
So where does an amp like my Shuttle 9.0 fall into the equation? It's not a power amp, yet is is "high powered" compared to many of the other popular heads. I've been using it with the Furman with great results, but if I'm risking damage by doing that I'd like to know.
What's the verdict?
What's the verdict?
Plug it straight to the wall and you will get great results too. There are previous threads on this topic where Genz himself said he doesn't recommend plugging his amps or any amp for that matter into power conditioners. Other amp manufacturers concur on this too, so I would say follow their advice and don't do it.
I don't see where it will harm anything over the short term but I have to wonder about prolong use of many years might shorten the life out of the transistors due to current limitations by using a power conditioner.
If you have a rack I would suggest using a power conditioner for your preamp and effects and plug your power amp straight to the source. A simple low cost unit works just as good as a higher one, the main difference is the added accessories like front and rear lights and meters. If you rack space is limited, a good quality power strip works just as good.
I also use and recommend a 21 ft. 12 gauge extension cord with a 2 outlet "Y" on one end so I have only 1 power cord to plug in to the source from my rack.
However incoherently and seven ways at once, not mentioning the class-clown input.
As best as I understand that linked thread -- and this whole vexed question:
The danger to the power amp comes from VOLTAGE REGULATING "power conditioners," not the plain old power strip substitutes, which are not inherently dangerous, just expensive rack versions of the hardware store item.
Is that the bottom line or not?
No, that's one of the bottom lines. Add the following:
1. If a power amp needs an instantaneous draw of current that exceeds the conditioners 15 amp rating, the circuit protection will shut everything off until the unit is reset.
2. There is no benefit to plugging an amplifier into a power conditioner besides convenience. There is no beneficial filtering or protection in a power conditioner that is not already incorporated into the design of the amplifier. In other words, amps are designed by their respective manufacturers to plug straight into the wall.
3. If you want additional fuse protection then plug your amp into a 20 amp rated power strip. The overwhelming majority of professional grade amps are internally fuse protected as well so you'll have 2 layers of surge protection.
4. Power conditioners are not voltage regulators and do nothing to protect your equipment from voltage drops. Voltage Regulators can store a charge to compensate for these voltage drops but many of them are not designed to handle the instantaneous power demands of amplifiers and can "choke down" the power to the extent of damaging the amplifier (as you already noted).
At the end of the day every consumer has the right to spend their hard earned money on whatever they think is best for their gear. But the marketing hype for power conditioners is misleading and creates a need in the minds of consumers that doesn't really exist.
Just reading the Truth & Lies article.They say it doesnt do anything using a conditioner & i toatally believe that.
I have a very powerfull amp that has a rating of 3400watts when bridged. I have never used anything to control the power. I plug the amp straight into the wall socket.The power cable is a very sturdy & heavy duty compared to a normal power cord say like something you use for your CD palyer 2 to 3 times the thickness.
Its a waste of money !
I have a very powerfull amp that has a rating of 3400watts when bridged. I have never used anything to control the power. I plug the amp straight into the wall socket.The power cable is a very sturdy & heavy duty compared to a normal power cord say like something you use for your CD palyer 2 to 3 times the thickness.
Its a waste of money !
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,970
- 5
- 220,703
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
The real answer is "it depends".
The conditioners you all are mentioning are not really conditioners at all, merely simple transient voltage protectors that have very, very limited protection capabilities. The chief danger is that folks try to turn on and off their amps using the "master" power switch on the "conditioner like device". When this happens, the inductive load that the transformer (in non-SMPS style amps) presents to the power switch will over time cause the power switch to fail. The power switches of all big bass amps generally have special arc killing protection across their contacts which is NOT present on the "conditioner".
There are also voltage regulating "conditioners" that use automatic tap changing commutating switches and these are not recommended with power amps or other heavily dynamic loads due to the potential for the devices to hunt and oscillate under some conditions. Failures of these devices is generally pretty spectacular.
The conditioners you all are mentioning are not really conditioners at all, merely simple transient voltage protectors that have very, very limited protection capabilities. The chief danger is that folks try to turn on and off their amps using the "master" power switch on the "conditioner like device". When this happens, the inductive load that the transformer (in non-SMPS style amps) presents to the power switch will over time cause the power switch to fail. The power switches of all big bass amps generally have special arc killing protection across their contacts which is NOT present on the "conditioner".
There are also voltage regulating "conditioners" that use automatic tap changing commutating switches and these are not recommended with power amps or other heavily dynamic loads due to the potential for the devices to hunt and oscillate under some conditions. Failures of these devices is generally pretty spectacular.
It's not a waste of money if it polices the rat's nest down to a single AC power cord to the rack.
That's ALL I would want or expect from one of these, though the lights might be nice, too. I'm just trying to determine if I am running any added risks by so doing, if it's just the bottom-of-the-line "conditioner" that's nothing but a rackmounted power strip.
That's all I'm asking here.
