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Is sustain such a many splendored thing?
- Thread starter jellymax
- Start date
Sustain is over-rated,…until you need it. We had this conversation a couple of years ago, and I timed the note I needed for that weekend’s set at church. 14 seconds. In some genres, sustain is a very useful and necessary thing.
A string has two ends. it loses energy at both ends. The end with the massive hunk of metal bolted to a massive block of wood is not the end that needs improvement, The end where the string is anchored to a skinny piece of wood via a tiny strip of metal is where most of the energy is lost from the string vibration. I have a degree in Acoustical Physics, but to me it seems like this should be obvious to most people.
You want more sustain? Get a bass with a thicker neck. A P is better than a J. A 5’er with a nice thick neck; even better.
A string has two ends. it loses energy at both ends. The end with the massive hunk of metal bolted to a massive block of wood is not the end that needs improvement, The end where the string is anchored to a skinny piece of wood via a tiny strip of metal is where most of the energy is lost from the string vibration. I have a degree in Acoustical Physics, but to me it seems like this should be obvious to most people.
You want more sustain? Get a bass with a thicker neck. A P is better than a J. A 5’er with a nice thick neck; even better.
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Also, technique from the dark side (guitar): facing a bass stack to encourage the bass to resonate to the edge of feedback. Or resting the headstock on the cab.
For those end of set rock meltdowns and also to sometimes let the magic smoke out of jbl D-140s.
For those end of set rock meltdowns and also to sometimes let the magic smoke out of jbl D-140s.
It is if you're playing music that needs strong long notes.
IMO sustain is a good thing and a sign if good manufacture. If a bass sustains well all the other notes will sound better.
If you don't want the sustain don't use it. If you do want the notes to sustain and your bass can't, you have a problem.
I have a Mike Lull P bass with flats and foam. Not an ounce of sustain there. My Sadowsky Jazz is strung with NYXL rounds and sustains for days.
It depends on the material I am playing. I’m a cover guy and if I’m doing older stuff where the muted Jameson sound fits best, that’s what I’m going for. If I’m doing something more modern, then a non-muted amount of sustain is nice. But I’m not line, going out and auditioning basses for their sustain. Whatever I can get without a mute is good enough.
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SunO))) covers? Seriously though, my model is an orchestra with bowed strings and low brass. Yes tuba can puff out short phrases but it can also susuain as long as breath holds out and for those few who circular breathe, that's a long time. Alto horn, never seen anymore unless you are in a British Brass band, was called Peck Horn because of the rhythmic function of pecking notes like a chicken.Seriously, what genre of music needs 20 seconds of sustain from the bass guitar??? Or even 10 seconds for that matter? (I'm sure someone will be around shortly to tell me though).
I was lucky to get a 1981 Carvin bass in the late 80s, set neck, ebony fretboard, very heavy, The incredable sustain (vs a Fender anything) encouraged me to develop a chordal aproach to playing bass (inspired by Hugo Largo and orchestral music). I also have a foam mute on a Lakland for when pecking like a chicken is needed, because sometimes it is. If your model is Jamerson, that's all the time. It's all good. Plucking a double bass is pretty close in duration to tuba and bass/baritone sax stacatto style that was the standard in the early days. Btw, tuba and bass sax are 4 times louder than plucked double bass and without electricity they Were the standard for 100 years...including early New Orleans jazz... I can see why Fender basses were considered inferior and foam was necessary to copy the standard style.
But having a strong fundamental as well as great sustain remain my criteria for a bass (along with comfort of course)
Jack Bruce is a good example of a bass player who used both stacatto plucking (Sunshine) and sustain (White Room intro).
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Yes of course... but it also depends. In my experience basses with unusually long sustain (which I don't personally need) often have a less snappy attack and less "bouncy" dynamics (which I DO need). This isn't ALWAYS the case but GENERALLY I find that basses with high mass bridges, neck through construction and all the other stuff that's supposed to improve sustain are also lacking the playing dynamics that I personally prefer.
In my world the attack of each note is far more important than the sustain, simply because practically all basses give me adequate sustain but the attack of some basses just doesn't "feel" right to me (and no, I don't just play muted flats, only three of my approx. 40 basses have foam mutes + flats installed).
It all depends on the playing situation/venue, and music. With a big PA, large stage, many monitors, one can easily over saturate. The very next gig might be on cement with a few speakers for vocals only.
Best bass for metal.Five years ago I plucked an open E on my solid aluminum bass & it’s still ringing out to this very day please send help it’s hard to sleep I don’t know what to do
Sustain is a love/hate issue to me. I want to have the option on my bass but I find I don't use it very much.
My preference is to have great sustain. If it is present, the player has more tools in the toolbox. It can be used or not, because it is controllable. If the player wants a staccato thud, a lift of the fretting finger from the note, leaving the finger to rest on the string without tension, will mute and suffice to stop the sustain. A plucking or picking hand mute used with the technique described is also helpful.
There are times with simple lines or in smaller ensembles, like power trios for example, where sustain can fill gaps without abandoning simplicity and really serve the song. In these instances, great sustain is close to a requirement in my book.
And, we could have a whole 'nother conversation about fretless and how sustain contributes to that sound and playing experience.
I don't have any science or theory to cite....this is just my opinion, preference, and style based on many years of experience.
Koog
There are times with simple lines or in smaller ensembles, like power trios for example, where sustain can fill gaps without abandoning simplicity and really serve the song. In these instances, great sustain is close to a requirement in my book.
And, we could have a whole 'nother conversation about fretless and how sustain contributes to that sound and playing experience.
I don't have any science or theory to cite....this is just my opinion, preference, and style based on many years of experience.
Koog
Sustain can be bad when you're playing busy parts. A bass with limited sustain (e.g. flats) where the note begins to fade just a bit before the next note helps each note to JumP OuT cOmpAred to the previous note. Each note in a busy passage becomes more clear. With lots of ring and sustain you get a bit more of a WALL OF SOUND as the notes just merge together.
Then of course the there is the end of note sustain. If you need it and don't have it you're in trouble but even basses with less sustain (e.g. flats) will sustain. And if it is during a music fade out it works great.
If I'm playing a song where I need long open notes (ballads) then I'm probably playing rounds to get the sustain. Otherwise I play busy enough parts that the lack of sustain of the flats on my P bass are a benefit.
Then of course the there is the end of note sustain. If you need it and don't have it you're in trouble but even basses with less sustain (e.g. flats) will sustain. And if it is during a music fade out it works great.
If I'm playing a song where I need long open notes (ballads) then I'm probably playing rounds to get the sustain. Otherwise I play busy enough parts that the lack of sustain of the flats on my P bass are a benefit.
My experience guides me to disagree, at least in part. IME, the shape of the attack, generally, is far more a function of technique than anything imparted by the instrument itself. Of course it is true that some instruments seem so 'soft' and lifeless as to sap the attack before it even gets going, but IME, rather than have good sustain they also tend to be the ones that continue sapping energy from the whole envelope and so end up being not much good for anything else!
