Is the Basses Section getting segregated?

[Dr. Cheese]

...Plus we all seem to be suckers for those "Sadowsky vs. Fender" threads. We know it'll turn into a train wreck and end badly, but like bugs at a bug zapper we swarm and fly into the light...

I need to remember that!

 

[GregC]

you're talking around what i said.

You didn't say a whole lot. Feel free to expand on it.

 

[standupright]

You didn't say a whole lot. Feel free to expand on it.

obviously it was enough to warrant a response from you.

 

[GregC]

i think some of it has to do with imo, heavy moderation of the forum. lets face it, this is a discussion forum. discussions where everyone is nice nice, ho ho jolly old chap (insert lots of smilies in order to avoid offending) makes coversation a bit timid.

I don't buy this. The most productive, informative discussions happen when people talk intelligently and respectfully to each other. Personal insults and flame wars don't benefit anyone except the person who gets their rocks off engaging in them.

you're talking around what i said.

You didn't say a whole lot. Feel free to expand on it.

obviously it was enough to warrant a response from you.

OK, here's where we're at. If I "talked around" what you said, it wasn't intentional--I guess I misunderstood you or you didn't say enough to make yourself clear. So why not expand on it or explain how I'm talking around what you said?

 

[standupright]

OK, here's where we're at. If I "talked around" what you said, it wasn't intentional--I guess I misunderstood you or you didn't say enough to make yourself clear. So why not expand on it or explain how I'm talking around what you said?

to be honest, i agree with what you said, it just didn't really have anything to do with my comment on heavy moderation. yes, more can be garnered from polite intellectual conversation, however, this being the internet, with voices and no faces, and all types of personalities, chances are it won't be that way all the time. i said something similar in another thread......if you get offended by people you don't know, without a face on the internet, because they posted a flaming or disagreeable comment, then maybe it's time to step away, go outside and get some fresh air. so someone posted something that someone else doesn't like, or is insulting, so what, grow a pair and move on (not aimed at you).

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

I feel there has been a tendency for discussion on the basses board to really congregate in small groups who are into specific makes. I know this is natural, but I do miss seeing people who did not own a particular bass or maybe who had just played one voicing their opinion about that bass. Realistically, I know that at least some of the reason this has declined is because of flame wars that started when someone said something less than favorable about a bass that had a strong following. I know that I often censor myself to avoid making folks mad, but I do believe alot can be learned when "we swim in each other's ponds" at least sometimes.

I have mixed feelings on this.

Yep. I think there is lots of congregation going on. Sometimes it is good, like when there is a club or show you ___ bass threads. Sometimes it is bad when someone who has no appreciation or no interest in being in favor of, or trying to find the virtues of a bass decides to be a contrarian/disenter. I've seen too many times where it's bordered on troll-like behavior or troll-like way of articulating the opinion. I think there is an appropriate way and an appropriate place to voice something less than favorable about, say, a Fender bass. And the place, IMO, to NOT do that is inside a "Do you love Fender basses like I do" thread.

I think a lot of people totally forget that they have the ability to start a thread to hate/dislike/marginalize anything they want, from the knobs on a Hartke power amp to the whole lineup of Fender musical instruments.

There are times, however, when dissent/disagreement is actually instructional. These are times when myths can be dispelled and out of the box thinking can be encouraged, and more informed choices can be made. Such conversations, IMO, don't usually occur when people who have never cared for P-Basses jump in the middle of a pro- P-Bass thread. I think it is possible, however, to express dissent and disagreement, but IMO, it takes care, nuance, and some measure of diplomacy to pull it off. Sometimes people have all three components. Sometimes not.

Regarding polling: You always get a significant number of folks who, when their particular choice of gear is included in the poll, will recommend that gear. Sure, I kinda get that logic, but I actually have a different approach which is that knowing a majority of people will recommend their own gear, it doesn't advance the ball for the poller. It's like saying: "recommend a bass for me to buy" at which point there will be 20 thousand different recommendations of different basses, and no consensus. No knowledge is gained. My response and concern is that people who are interested in different products should rely on their own ear and what feels good to their hands and bank accounts and not rely so much on what other people say.

I, like you, like the concept of "swimming in other people's ponds." However, I regrettably have seen too many instances where it is actually "pee-ing in other people's ponds" to use your analogy.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I have mixed feelings on this.

Yep. I think there is lots of congregation going on. Sometimes it is good, like when there is a club or show you ___ bass threads. Sometimes it is bad when someone who has no appreciation or no interest in being in favor of, or trying to find the virtues of a bass decides to be a contrarian/disenter. I've seen too many times where it's bordered on troll-like behavior or troll-like way of articulating the opinion. I think there is an appropriate way and an appropriate place to voice something less than favorable about, say, a Fender bass. And the place, IMO, to NOT do that is inside a "Do you love Fender basses like I do" thread.

I think a lot of people totally forget that they have the ability to start a thread to hate/dislike/marginalize anything they want, from the knobs on a Hartke power amp to the whole lineup of Fender musical instruments.

There are times, however, when dissent/disagreement is actually instructional. These are times when myths can be dispelled and out of the box thinking can be encouraged, and more informed choices can be made. Such conversations, IMO, don't usually occur when people who have never cared for P-Basses jump in the middle of a pro- P-Bass thread. I think it is possible, however, to express dissent and disagreement, but IMO, it takes care, nuance, and some measure of diplomacy to pull it off. Sometimes people have all three components. Sometimes not.

Regarding polling: You always get a significant number of folks who, when their particular choice of gear is included in the poll, will recommend that gear. Sure, I kinda get that logic, but I actually have a different approach which is that knowing a majority of people will recommend their own gear, it doesn't advance the ball for the poller. It's like saying: "recommend a bass for me to buy" at which point there will be 20 thousand different recommendations of different basses, and no consensus. No knowledge is gained. My response and concern is that people who are interested in different products should rely on their own ear and what feels good to their hands and bank accounts and not rely so much on what other people say.

I, like you, like the concept of "swimming in other people's ponds." However, I regrettably have seen too many instances where it is actually "pee-ing in other people's ponds" to use your analogy.

I'm glad you posted. I think you gave us all alot to think about.

 

[Darkstrike]

Nothing to add, great discussion so far, I can see both sides of the story too.

Thanks for starting this up Dr.

 

[stflbn]

I think a lot of people totally forget that they have the ability to start a thread to hate/dislike/marginalize anything they want, from the knobs on a Hartke power amp to the whole lineup of Fender musical instruments.

Then why do Hate/dislike/marginalize threads regarding gear get shut down/deleted constantly by mods? It happens. I think the excuse I've heard before is 'to inflammatory' for Talkbass's rules you agreed to when joining.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Plus we all seem to be suckers for those "Sadowsky vs. Fender" threads.

The sad part though is newbies who are looking for actual guidance in this world of music sometimes believe that all you need is a P bass, and that time, note choice, taste, and touch are the tools you truly NEED.

I did the Sadowsky vs. Fender thing just once when someone was trying to figure out (without touching/playing either of them) which one to buy, and it was a 70s Fender which made such a purchase all the more risky, especially in comparison to the brand new Sadowsky, which was the other option. In terms of one brand versus another in general, I could care less insofar as both have their value.

I would actually be interesting in a situation where a newbie thought that all they needed was a P-bass, time, note choice, taste, and touch. Of course, I don't support the idea that the bass HAS to be a P-bass, but otherwise, such an approach that focuses on the player and the qualities and development of the individual instead of being all about the gear seems remarkably mature for a beginner. I would welcome that, actually.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Then why do Hate/dislike/marginalize threads regarding gear get shut down/deleted constantly by mods? It happens. I think the excuse I've heard before is 'to inflammatory' for Talkbass's rules you agreed to when joining.

I know they get shut down. I think there are inevitably some pro-this/that people that do their own ruckus-raising on anti-whatever threads. That is regrettable, IMO. However, even those that are inclined to hate/dislike/marginalize and start up their own threads about it does not guarantee that even in general agreement about something they dislike, those individuals would not otherwise become snippy with each other over anything beyond that basic point.

I'm not sure if my comments here are exactly answering your post, as I'm not sure if your comment was directly addressing something I originally said. I think I understand your point, but not 100% sure.

 

[Ric5]

One of the main reasons I came to this forum was there is more diversity. I was on another forum which became like a cult following for Rickenbackers. Now I love a Ric bass but I am realistic in that there are some other really good basses out there, and bass playing does not begin and end with a Rickenbacker. What really freaked them out is when I said I prefered my jazz to my Ric.

But here I can post my opinions and for the most part I don't get harassed for them.

I think the X versus Y threads are good as long as we all treat each other with respect. For instance I don't like flatwound strings. But I don't take it as a personal insult when someone else says they prefer flats to rounds.

 

[Oren Hudson]

......if you get offended by people you don't know, without a face on the internet, because they posted a flaming or disagreeable comment, then maybe it's time to step away, go outside and get some fresh air. so someone posted something that someone else doesn't like, or is insulting, so what, grow a pair and move on.

Total agreement from this ole boy. This is still America that this site is based in, and as Americans, and even non-Americans, we have the right (fought for by countless American soilders - another thread perhaps) to express our opinions. Have some of us forgotten one of the "Freedoms" that America is based upon - freedom of speech? I forget who said it, but one famous line from our past goes something like this - I might not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. Of course, it's a 2 way street, particularily when the mud slinging gets heavy, then no one benefits from thread conversations/comments.

Lots and lots of informative, interesting and fun stuff here on TB. Also some mindless garbage, IMO, but even those threads usually have participants. Point being a forum can only be a true forum when the moderation is on the light side.
If someones comments get too inflamatory or whatever, you should consider doing what my mother taught me -sometimes it's best to ignore ignorance.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

But here I can post my opinions and for the most part I don't get harassed for them.

Welcome. And I would like to highlight one of the best features, IMO, of this forum in case you ever need it: the "ignore" and "buddy" lists. With all due respect to community, broadening and more-inclusive approach to things, I know there are people who I'm either simply not going to agree with or simply not like the way they state something (or vice-versa), and that good ole' ignore feature can be a really great one. It allows you to continue to be a part of the larger discussion without the aggravation and visibility of people for whatever reason, who rub you the wrong way, consistently. Thankfully, I've only a couple on the ignore list out of thousands here.

Rickenbackers and Jazz basses are both fine instruments. No issue from me.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Point being a forum can only be a true forum when the moderation is on the light side.

sometimes it's best to ignore ignorance.

I don't always agree with your first point, nor do I always agree with your second point. But I support your right to make those points.