Is there really a big difference between Squire vs Fender

[SurferJoe46]

And there's those weird SAE fittings that have an equivalent metric. But that's deviating from the topic.

But yeah, to me the whole Fender v.s. Squier argument is like the Gibson v.s. Epiphone thing all over again. If you REALLY want to see a difference between a Gibson, pick up a real Gibson Les Paul Junior and then the Epiphone model. The P90 pickup makes a huge difference.

Good point. Not totally correct, but good.

I tried to love - honestly tried to love --- a certain high-ball Fender once - the Marcus Miller --- and it just wasn't happening.

It's not so much the finish or frets or electrics - it's the whole damned design.

What I see and feel is that no matter how high up the tree a particular bass is, it's not gonna appeal to everyone and if those 'everyones' are used to something like a flatter neck or slide switches, then everything else is second rate.

I've had - HAD being the operative here --- both the Epi and the Gibson LPS basses and hated them both equally.

They were heavy beyond imagination (free concrete day at the factory?) and they just had this negative ergo-design that made it feel like it was designed by elfin dropouts.

So it may not be a QC problem so much although that certainly doesn't rule out a 1:100 ratio of lemons to good guitars.

The whole thing is rather nebulous and quicksand-like, EG: 'What's the best bass for metal'.

As far as QC is concerned, I don't worry too much about it any more if the finish doesn't fall off and the neck isn't parabolic, then I can make adjustments and repair or reset things to the way I like them.

Any more now, I just find myself making the bass I want instead of gassing over some new model. I can make what I want better.

But --- I'll give you a B+ for the answer.

 

[Immigrant]

I guess I will jump into this as well.

I own a Geddy Lee Jazz bass and it has been my #1 guitar for the past three years. This past weekend I bought a Squier VM Jazz Bass '77. I picked it off the guitar shop wall because of the look (white pearloid blocks on maple fingerboard...very unique). I was amazed at how well it played and the sound. Granted, a lot of that has to do with the setup done by the shop luthier and the amp you play out of but I have to say that I am really impressed so far and plan on using the "77" on some gigs in the future.

Those VM Jazzes are the best bass value IMO. Congrats.

 

[isher1992]

Good point. Not totally correct, but good.

I tried to love - honestly tried to love --- a certain high-ball Fender once - the Marcus Miller --- and it just wasn't happening.

It's not so much the finish or frets or electrics - it's the whole damned design.

What I see and feel is that no matter how high up the tree a particular bass is, it's not gonna appeal to everyone and if those 'everyones' are used to something like a flatter neck or slide switches, then everything else is second rate.

I've had - HAD being the operative here --- both the Epi and the Gibson LPS basses and hated them both equally.

They were heavy beyond imagination (free concrete day at the factory?) and they just had this negative ergo-design that made it feel like it was designed by elfin dropouts.

So it may not be a QC problem so much although that certainly doesn't rule out a 1:100 ratio of lemons to good guitars.

The whole thing is rather nebulous and quicksand-like, EG: 'What's the best bass for metal'.

As far as QC is concerned, I don't worry too much about it any more if the finish doesn't fall off and the neck isn't parabolic, then I can make adjustments and repair or reset things to the way I like them.

Any more now, I just find myself making the bass I want instead of gassing over some new model. I can make what I want better.

But --- I'll give you a B+ for the answer.

That's what I'm starting to get into. I've been shopping around for a new bass lately, but I just can't find one I really just flat out want (that I can afford with all my prior debt). That's why I started this Bronco project; to get a feel for building an instrument with something that's low cost and I can learn on and won't be out a lot of money.

Also, don't the Epiphone's and Gibson bodies use Mahogany as the base wood, without chambering the body? When I was playing an Ovation Magnum a friend had bought, it was solid mahogany and it was like carrying around concrete too. Mahogany just is a really dense and heavy wood.

 

[SurferJoe46]

I do drool over the CS version of the Reggie though.

Ah well, perhaps I'll make my own. It will be a Fender rip-off though, as I'm entranced with the whole Fenderesque design - and I believe that I'll put my penguins on the headstock.

"Take THAT, Fender!"

 

[isher1992]

I do drool over the CS version of the Reggie though.

Ah well, perhaps I'll make my own. It will be a Fender rip-off though, as I'm entranced with the whole Fenderesque design - and I believe that I'll put my penguins on the headstock.

"Take THAT, Fender!"

DO ET.

 

[SurferJoe46]

I'm gathering parts for the past few months - we'll see.

I have one more design that's in my head and I need to get that off the bench first.

 

[Kukulkan61]

there is suttle differences but not to justify $1000.00 difference in price,I have a 1961 p bass and a squier VM p bass there is no difference in sound and all i gig with now is the Squier,dont get me wrong I love my 61 I just worry about it getting jacked or damaged,but the Squier is really nice to play its a workhorse if thats what your looking for,from what I have read the same tooling thats used to make the squiers overseas is the same tooling they use on the american and mexican fenders,the squiers are just priced low because of the overseas cheap labor,I also have a VM squier jaguar bass and its just as nice as the vm p bass,both basses cost me $440.00 total and i would and do gig with them anytime ,anywhere and by the way I'm not concerned about what the headstock has on it that doesnt mean jack, if that bothers you just get yourself a snark clip on tuner and put it on over decal on the headstock,bottom line is get what feels right and good to you,if your on a budget get the VM squier if you want to spend $100.00s of dollars more get the fender,by the way every mim fender that i have ever tried or played was a dog the VM squiers are better in my opinion...

 

[thumpslap]

I watch that demo with ed whathisname, and he was playing though a genz benz amp. I played a broom with a string on it though one and it sounded awesome.

 

[4andnomore]

Both are good for what they are. There is a considerable difference that is reflected in the selling price. It's that simple.

 

[soulman969]

No. They both have six letters but you put the ones that spell Squier in the wrong order.

 

[Stranger Danger]

there is suttle differences but not to justify $1000.00 difference in price,I have a 1961 p bass and a squier VM p bass there is no difference in sound and all i gig with now is the Squier,dont get me wrong I love my 61 I just worry about it getting jacked or damaged,but the Squier is really nice to play its a workhorse if thats what your looking for,from what I have read the same tooling thats used to make the squiers overseas is the same tooling they use on the american and mexican fenders,the squiers are just priced low because of the overseas cheap labor,I also have a VM squier jaguar bass and its just as nice as the vm p bass,both basses cost me $440.00 total and i would and do gig with them anytime ,anywhere and by the way I'm not concerned about what the headstock has on it that doesnt mean jack, if that bothers you just get yourself a snark clip on tuner and put it on over decal on the headstock,bottom line is get what feels right and good to you,if your on a budget get the VM squier if you want to spend $100.00s of dollars more get the fender,by the way every mim fender that i have ever tried or played was a dog the VM squiers are better in my opinion...

I respectfully but completely disagree with you. But if you're happy then I'm happy for you.

 

[sratas]

I'm new to the bass world and I'm currently searching for my first bass. Within the search I've asked other bassists about Squire's and they seem to say things like "If you want to save money then get a Squire...if you want real good tone then get a fender...better wood." But the Squire's I've tested sounded great...especially the P basses. I have enough saved up for a Fender but...is there really a sound difference between the two? Just seeing if my ears are deceiving me.

Some concrete differencies.
fret work and necks tend to be better with fender. Heard and tested myself some Squiers and found different defects that is more rare to find so exposed on a Fender. The nut is imporperly cut, fretwork is scarse, not filed or crowned properly, strings too high on the neck at the first fret, sky-high stock action, but maybe this can be solved adjusting bridge saddles and/or neck relief. On Squiers stock electronics seem very scarse, even the "duncan designed" of the VM 70 did not convince me. The use of different wood bodies seem to impart a new feature to response and tone, some like it a lot. I liked better the tone of the VM 70, maybe also because of a maple body.
Squiers seem to be more consistent fro one to another, a good mark of quality for a mass produced budget bass.

Fenders...tried several in the past month. Better woods? not always, sometimes the neck of the Squiers seemed higher quality and even cut less "flat sawn". Sometimes even high-market Fenders have approximate matching of the neck to the neck pocket. On some Fenders (Deluxe), sky-high action, but the bridge saddles were almost all down, so maybe there is not enough room for adjust, as I would want at least. On the deluxes I tested (2), the body was built in 3 pieces of hard and heavy ash (not swamp at all). In one occasion one of the three pieces was so different in color that constituted a deal breaker for me. I mean a 1700 euros bass.
Sometimes I tried a Squier that felt good in my hands and the neck woods appeared to be of an high quality. the tone of the instrument was quite awful, but this maybe can be attributed to other things as well.

So: in my opinion, some differencies are there. Are they enough to justify a three times expense? Only you can judge. I'm not a fan of Fender or Squier, I admit, but if I had to choose it will be the Squier VM 70, paying a lot of attention to chose the right specimen (some posts about ski ramps and other neck issues), eventually I could rebuild all the electronics using good quality parts and PUs.

 

[SF_Bass_God]

Fenders tend to have a slight heavier wood, which will in turn affect the overall tone in the long run. Squier pickups may be less quality than a Fender which also will affect the overall tone. If you are running through a processor or some other form of stomp box like item, it doesnt honestly matter which kind of bass your playing because processors now a days are more geared twords amp modeling. I personally like squire because of the price tag. Ive played a squier bullet and fell in love with it. I wish being apart of Fender, squier would make a Geddy Lee P Bass as epiphone did the bullseye & Zakk Wylde. Overall go with your gut, play both until you drive the music store people nuts. Can't go wrong with either I think.

 

[rzpooch]

I would suggest getting a decent used "squier", have it set up, then spend the rest on a good amp! John Q Public won't know the difference in tone and you can get another bass down the road. Most of us do!

 

[cnltb]

I'm new to the bass world and I'm currently searching for my first bass. Within the search I've asked other bassists about Squire's and they seem to say things like "If you want to save money then get a Squire...if you want real good tone then get a fender...better wood." But the Squire's I've tested sounded great...especially the P basses. I have enough saved up for a Fender but...is there really a sound difference between the two? Just seeing if my ears are deceiving me.

One difference is that Fender makes musical instruments, but squire...?

 

[Stranger Danger]

One difference is that Fender makes musical instruments, but squire...?

Dead horse


Beaten

 

[cnltb]

Dead horse


Beaten

Of course!

 

[isher1992]

Some concrete differencies.
fret work and necks tend to be better with fender. Heard and tested myself some Squiers and found different defects that is more rare to find so exposed on a Fender. The nut is imporperly cut, fretwork is scarse, not filed or crowned properly, strings too high on the neck at the first fret, sky-high stock action, but maybe this can be solved adjusting bridge saddles and/or neck relief. On Squiers stock electronics seem very scarse, even the "duncan designed" of the VM 70 did not convince me. The use of different wood bodies seem to impart a new feature to response and tone, some like it a lot. I liked better the tone of the VM 70, maybe also because of a maple body.
Squiers seem to be more consistent fro one to another, a good mark of quality for a mass produced budget bass.

Fenders...tried several in the past month. Better woods? not always, sometimes the neck of the Squiers seemed higher quality and even cut less "flat sawn". Sometimes even high-market Fenders have approximate matching of the neck to the neck pocket. On some Fenders (Deluxe), sky-high action, but the bridge saddles were almost all down, so maybe there is not enough room for adjust, as I would want at least. On the deluxes I tested (2), the body was built in 3 pieces of hard and heavy ash (not swamp at all). In one occasion one of the three pieces was so different in color that constituted a deal breaker for me. I mean a 1700 euros bass.
Sometimes I tried a Squier that felt good in my hands and the neck woods appeared to be of an high quality. the tone of the instrument was quite awful, but this maybe can be attributed to other things as well.

So: in my opinion, some differencies are there. Are they enough to justify a three times expense? Only you can judge. I'm not a fan of Fender or Squier, I admit, but if I had to choose it will be the Squier VM 70, paying a lot of attention to chose the right specimen (some posts about ski ramps and other neck issues), eventually I could rebuild all the electronics using good quality parts and PUs.

Your problem with the bridge saddles seems to be something of all Fender basses--A local luthier told me he has to shim almost every Fender bass that comes in to level the frets all the way down the fretboard, because no matter what, the frets past the 14th fret are still way too high for me.

 

[sratas]

Your problem with the bridge saddles seems to be something of all Fender basses--A local luthier told me he has to shim almost every Fender bass that comes in to level the frets all the way down the fretboard, because no matter what, the frets past the 14th fret are still way too high for me.

Premise: I'm aware that this post will collect every fender fan and start a TB war. This is not my aim, I only have the right to post my experience.
played for 23 years, I perform all my setups (and for friends) personally, I am able to understand if a bass is built in a good way only inspecting it and playing briefly. Sometimes even a poor built bass can sound awesome, so many variables involved, but this is not what I'm talking about. I confess I'm a bit exigent about build quality and components, that, in turn, mean good playability in most cases, more so if I'm prone to spend almost 2 grands for a bass.
In the last year I started a quest to find MY jazz, tried several, till now a few so-so and some complete delusions.
Even the so-praised 2012 standards have been generally disappointing to me.
In my honest opinion: IT IS UN-TOLERABLE THAT A 1500+ EUROS NEW BASS HAS TO BE MODIFIED BY A LUTHIER IN ORDER TO PLAY GOOD AND TO CORRECT CONGENITAL CHRONIC ISSUES.
You say that a luthier you know says that he has to shim all the necks to achieve correct playability? Well, I can trust him.
Maybe in my near future I will find the right one, I'm still searching with method, but the overall picture is rather grey to my eye.
maybe I will try also G&l, or Lull etc. A little bit more expensive, but if the quality is better...

As I said previously, if I should pick up a fender these days I would choose a Squier VM 70. Maybe it needs some work on it, but, on a 350 euros bass, I can justify the thing.

 

[isher1992]

As I said previously, if I should pick up a fender these days I would choose a Squier VM 70. Maybe it needs some work on it, but, on a 350 euros bass, I can justify the thing.

That's kinda the boat I am in. I feel no qualms with paying 50 bucks or less here and there to upgrade small things on a 300 dollars or less cost bass, but I'd feel absolutely disappointed if I bought a multi-thousand dollar instrument only to have something I'm disappointed with in it.