Just wanted to jump in and say that while I agree with your post, the instrument of choice may have been a poor selection. Contrary to popular knowledge, the Marcus Miller Signature bass, very much like the Geddy Lee, is a mid level instrument for Fender. They are made in Japan, not the US, so their is still a slight difference in quality in that product line. The pricing no longer suggest their mid level designations for reasons that I can only speculate, but about 5 yrs ago a M. Miller could be had new for $875 and a G. Lee for $799.
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Is there really a big difference between Squire vs Fender
- Thread starter aasti3000
- Start date
Just wanted to jump in and say that while I agree with your post, the instrument of choice may have been a poor selection. Contrary to popular knowledge, the Marcus Miller Signature bass, very much like the Geddy Lee, is a mid level instrument for Fender. They are made in Japan, not the US, so their is still a slight difference in quality in that product line. The pricing no longer suggest their mid level designations for reasons that I can only speculate, but about 5 yrs ago a M. Miller could be had new for $875 and a G. Lee for $799.
"You say that a luthier you know says that he has to shim all the necks to achieve correct playability? Well, I can trust him."
Yeah, well I can't - because IME with Fenders - and it's considerable - any "luthier" that shims every Fender he works on is a hack that doesn't know what he's doing... Certainly Fender necks do need to be shimmed occasionally, but "ann necks"??? - that's kitchen table work right there...
- georgestrings
What Fender costs "multi-thousand dollar", that would need an upgrade??? - even a new MIA P or Jazz is around $1200-$1300... I get that some people can't/won't pay for an MIA Fender, but don't exaggerate to try to make a point...
- georgestrings
I believe there is a big difference between Squiers and Fenders and believe the same between MIM and MIA .
well, maybe you are right, but frankly HOW can you justify that even a small but considerable amount of Fenders actually HAS to be modified heavily (luthier) just after the purchase?.
Don't misunderstand me, I LOVE the Fender tone, I'm searching for my Fender, but I feel frustrated by the perceived poor quality or QC of the brand, at least.
"Multi-thousand dollar" (not my words) is a bit excessive, but even a 1700 euros bass in Italy (translated in dollars we are near 2100 +) like the Fender Deluxe 4 jazz, could have such an intolerable issue for the price. In the last month I tried 2 Deluxes (few months arrival in the shop), and both had sky-high action with no room left on the bridge saddles to adjust, they seemed to have a correctly bowed neck (more or less), so no room left here. One of them even showed a bad ski ramp.
Some bad specimens found even within the MIA standard line.
Fender started it all, big respect, I want a good one, I crave to play a good one, but it's not as easy as many seem to state here. Maybe many users are simply not as picky like me, or maybe they adapt easier to certain issues, and that could be my fault.
I'm not criticizing the brand, I'm condamning clearly their policy about overall quality and price point (related to quality).
MIA equals to Squier? well... no, american instruments feel a tad better overall, but is there a 1000 + euros (translation for you: 1300 + dollars) difference for a standard model?
Only you can decide.
In my own personal opinion, I think the answer is no, but it's only me, and I have all the rights to have my ideas and spend my money in the way I feel more comfortable.
You pretty much stated one of my points.
A friend of mine told me just this week she bought a bass she'd been wanting...a Fender P. She asked me if I could fix it for her, because it seemed like the action is way too high past the 12th fret, and the height is as low as it can go without buzzing on the lower frets.
It just seems to be a thing with Fender basses--my Ibanez didn't have that problem, and very few other basses I have played seemed to have it.
There is a large difference. Ill start with a few.
- Body wood; type and quality
- Finishing work; body and neck
- fingerboard and fret work
- electronics
- the rest of the hardware
- country of origin
- Body wood; type and quality
- Finishing work; body and neck
- fingerboard and fret work
- electronics
- the rest of the hardware
- country of origin
I'd agree on body wood to a degree...a lot of the Affinity basses are made of Agathis, but some of the higher Squiers are made from some of the same woods.
I bet the "buying my first bass" OP is shocked that a seemly standard question yielded this thread, lol.
IF I were you, I'd get the squier. That way after a year or two of playing when you decide that " damn, I love the MM, jazz, ric, etc " its not a big deal.
And if you don't come to that realization, then your all the better off anyway.
my two cents
IF I were you, I'd get the squier. That way after a year or two of playing when you decide that " damn, I love the MM, jazz, ric, etc " its not a big deal.
And if you don't come to that realization, then your all the better off anyway.
my two cents
Simple - I don't think that:
"considerable amount of Fenders actually HAS to be modified heavily (luthier) just after the purchase?"
LOTS of people *call* themselves "luthiers" - doesn't mean much unless they actually have valid skills and knowledge... In short - the guy is a hack, if that's what he's telling you - find someone better to work on your instruments...
As for the rest - our price differences are less than yours, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion and to make your own choices...
- georgestrings
I was told this by a real luthier. He and I were talking about them, and he said it's just the way the necks are angled. They are angled so that the strings are higher the higher you go on the fret board, so even if your frets are entirely level, your action is still too high the higher you play. Which, I think that's totally credible--I could get the bow in the neck almost perfect on one Squier I own, and set the action as low as possible, and it still wouldn't be comfortable past the 12th fret. So, I made my own shim to level it out and had to raise the action slightly, but now it sits perfect.
ok george, maybe I was very unlucky in the search for a jazz. I will continue testing specimens to "find the right one".
My feeling is that consistency among specimens is a marker of quality, but maybe inconsistency can affect different brands and, to a certain extent, is always a possibility talking about instruments...
as for your comments on the luthier who said...I never talked about a luthier who told me etc etc, it was another tb user that posted this...
usually, and it has been 23 years, I perform all my setups personally, never built a bass or made woodworking and for sure I do not consider myself as having luthiery skills. Doing all my setups and little fixes has made me much more sensible than others about construction imperfections and so on. This seems to be a problem with certain instruments, but never had any bad perception when evaluating a Lull, Lackland, G&L, but they are also a tad more expensive. So maybe I'm simply more exigent than the average man, again, my fault, my damnation.
No offense, but your "real luthier" is full of crap - and giving his BS credability based on one Squier doesn't make alot of sense, to be honest...
- georgestrings
just stopping in for more giggles!
btw,.. where on earth can i demo one of these terrible Fenders?!!
btw,.. where on earth can i demo one of these terrible Fenders?!!
I am playing my first paying gig in years, this Saturday.
Unless my wife convinces me otherwise, I will bring only one bass: 2009 Squier Jazz-5 Active. My "second" will be 1999 Fender Am Stand Precision Bass....if at all.
Yes, my Squier's tuners could be a little better; I actually have to slightly tune my Squier, whereas my Fender Precision STAYS IN TUNE; set it and forget it.
Fretwork on Squier is also of lesser quality, but not enough to warrant spending on crowning frets, etc. Maybe after it has gifted me with many succesful PAID performances, I will reward it with a fret dressing service.
Agreed that stock Squier strings [ rounds] are a little lesser, but I haven't changed strings on mine since 2009. Again, after some successes I will replace stock strings with Rotosound rounds..which in time will eat into any basses frets.
As for knobs..I have never had a knob fall off anything; amps basses, boxes..NOTHING...EVER.... and [ most of] my stuff has been gigged hard.
Unless my wife convinces me otherwise, I will bring only one bass: 2009 Squier Jazz-5 Active. My "second" will be 1999 Fender Am Stand Precision Bass....if at all.
Yes, my Squier's tuners could be a little better; I actually have to slightly tune my Squier, whereas my Fender Precision STAYS IN TUNE; set it and forget it.
Fretwork on Squier is also of lesser quality, but not enough to warrant spending on crowning frets, etc. Maybe after it has gifted me with many succesful PAID performances, I will reward it with a fret dressing service.
Agreed that stock Squier strings [ rounds] are a little lesser, but I haven't changed strings on mine since 2009. Again, after some successes I will replace stock strings with Rotosound rounds..which in time will eat into any basses frets.
As for knobs..I have never had a knob fall off anything; amps basses, boxes..NOTHING...EVER.... and [ most of] my stuff has been gigged hard.
No it isn't - the considerable difference is in no small part due to vastly reduced cost of labor. Even compared to Mexico, places like Indonesia and China are dirt cheap in that respect, like less than a dollar an hour cheap.
OK. I own both a Fender and A Squier. Let's compare.
1. Body wood. Fender: Alder. Squier: Agathis (pine). But "tonewood" doesn't matter, right?
2. Body and neck finish. Both were quite nice.
3. Fingerboard and fret work. Fender had amazing neck needing no work. Squier was a nice neck but had a couple of high frets that needed leveled. The main difference with a USA is the carbon fiber rods that make the neck stable. Neither MIM or Squier have that. But to show you how life works, my Fender has a Jazz neck which I hate the feel of (of all my basses it is my least favorite neck profile) while my Squier has a P-bass neck which I love the fat feel of. (Main axe is G&L L2500 with typical "chunky" neck)
4. Electronics. Fender is Active (Deluxe) and Squier passive. (PJ)
BOTH Fender and Squier needed different pickups until I was satisfied. Both also needed shielding to eliminate most hum. Note Fender went from small bit of hum to none while Squier (had no shielding) went from lots of hum to none.
5. Rest of hardware. I had no problems with it. Tuning machines seemed OK on both. (No hard-turning sticky ones as you often find on an SX) Both basses needed Straploks added as I always do. I was not motivated to change bridges on either bass.
6. Country of origin. Well it is what it is.
Last week I sold my Fender Highway One and bought a Squier VM '77. Believe it or not, I prefer the Squier.
Seconded. Just because he's supposedly a "luthier" doens't mean he necessarily knows what he's talking about. Specifically in this case, he is indeed full of crap.
I ended this debate by going out and buying 3 early 80's MIJ Squiers. They beat most Fenders hands down.
