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Is there something about opening acts?

hrodbert696

hrodbert696

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#1
I'm traveling in Kansas City, and Saturday night caught the Barenaked Ladies' "Last Summer on Earth" tour. KT Tunstall and Better than Ezra opening, it was "get your 90s on" night. The two bands reminded us that their first albums came out 25 and 30 years ago, respectively, which seems weird.

Anywho...Good show, fun night, everyone played well. But...

In Better than Ezra's set, the bass was WAY too loud in the mix. It was BASS BASS BASS and then the vocals and the rest of the band kinda audible somewhere behind it. I'm a bassist, I like my low end brother to be heard, but... geez.

BNL came on as the headliner and the mix was perfect. Bass was audible, clear and punchy but not overdone.

I've heard the same thing in the past, shows where the opening act would have this overpowering boomy bass tone and then the headliner is mixed to perfection. I was assuming that it would be just that openers don't get the time to sound check the way headliners do, but then wouldn't it be equally likely that their bass was too LOW and inaudible (which I've never seen)? And anyway, this seemed more of a triple-bill than obscure opener and big-time headliner. Or do sound engineers just default to "crank the bass" when they don't have time to create a better mix? Or are the bassists getting a say in what they want and asking to be blasted that loud?

KT Tunstall is amazing, by the way, and I can't say enough good things about her. Great solo performer.
 
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#2
IME, it seems the sound guys will sometimes use the opening acts as "guinea pigs" to get a feel for the room. I know for a fact one place was notorious for it back when we were opening for national acts. Everyone hated the sonics when opening there but loved to headline. I've also been to lots of concerts where the sound seemed to evolve from sludge into a great mix as the night went on. Whether this phenomena is just a result of bad sound people or phsycoacoustic weirdness is beyond me, but I agree it's a thing.
 
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#6
I bet BNL put on a good show... I love their music, as it seems fun... but when I listen to their lyrics, reality settles back in, keeping me grounded and very lucky to not be the subject of their lyrics...

... now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to put the sprinkler on the lawn and run through with my gym shorts on.
 
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#7
hrodbert696 said:
I was assuming that it would be just that openers don't get the time to sound check the way headliners do, but then wouldn't it be equally likely that their bass was too LOW and inaudible (which I've never seen)?
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Also, if the problem were simply that the openers didn't have the opportunity for an adequate sound check, that would explain why their mix might be bad for the first song or two -- but not why someone couldn't figure out how to improve it at some point during their set. This just seems inexcusable, especially if the mix was as bad as you described.
 
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#8
hrodbert696 said:
The two bands reminded us that their first albums came out 25 and 30 years ago, respectively, which seems weird.
Click to expand...

I have said it in countless threads. No matter what the boomers and 70s kids (my generation) say, 90s rock is now "classic rock". 30 years before 1985 was 1955. Don't you think we called 50s music "oldies" by 1985? :D

In 1985 I was in high school playing for "oldies reviews" put on by the drama club. That music was from the 50s..... thirty years earlier. If my Googling is correct, both those bands' first major releases were 27 and 28 years ago.... pushing 30.

Back on topic.... pretty much every concert but a few I have been to in the last decade have been way too boomy.
 
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#11
i have a ton of experience as FOH = now, just for a few FOH gigs + i supply PA for my two bands. by history: touring and national act credits for 20 years in the best/known venues (midwest mostly).*

so, IME: the headliner demands respect and some attempt at my version of 'perfection' (my paycheck!). supporting acts get the benefit of my best efforts leading up to the headliner's showtime. however, if the road managers for the supporting acts (they are often cats who do the FOH when no one else is available --- big in country/rock touring) aren't available for 'consultation' then the choice often comes down to 'what they want' vs. 'what they need'. the best way to "punk" a supporting act is to give them what they want! :)

* i don't do this work anymore
 
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#12
hrodbert696 said:
I'm traveling in Kansas City, and Saturday night caught the Barenaked Ladies' "Last Summer on Earth" tour. KT Tunstall and Better than Ezra opening, it was "get your 90s on" night. The two bands reminded us that their first albums came out 25 and 30 years ago, respectively, which seems weird.

Anywho...Good show, fun night, everyone played well. But...

In Better than Ezra's set, the bass was WAY too loud in the mix. It was BASS BASS BASS and then the vocals and the rest of the band kinda audible somewhere behind it. I'm a bassist, I like my low end brother to be heard, but... geez.

BNL came on as the headliner and the mix was perfect. Bass was audible, clear and punchy but not overdone.

I've heard the same thing in the past, shows where the opening act would have this overpowering boomy bass tone and then the headliner is mixed to perfection. I was assuming that it would be just that openers don't get the time to sound check the way headliners do, but then wouldn't it be equally likely that their bass was too LOW and inaudible (which I've never seen)? And anyway, this seemed more of a triple-bill than obscure opener and big-time headliner. Or do sound engineers just default to "crank the bass" when they don't have time to create a better mix? Or are the bassists getting a say in what they want and asking to be blasted that loud?

KT Tunstall is amazing, by the way, and I can't say enough good things about her. Great solo performer.
Click to expand...

I noticed the same thing when I saw Grace Potter and the Nocturnals open for Dave Matthews. At that time I put it down to talent. I like GP's music more, but after seeing the Matthews band live there's no question they are very, very talented. BNLs are another band often overlooked when people talk about good live bands. Not to mention the headliner's people run the show.

I agree with you on KT Tunstall. She is fantastic.
 
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#14
Big name headliners tour with their own foh sound person and monitor guys (girls). The openers usually can't afford that luxury and have to rely on the house person. Sometimes they're great, sometimes they are not, and they aren't usually unfamiliar with the bands sound or songs.

The best thing any touring band can spend their money on is a good traveling foh person.
 
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#15
bombpop14 said:
Big name headliners tour with their own foh sound person and monitor guys (girls). The openers usually can't afford that luxury and have to rely on the house person. Sometimes they're great, sometimes they are not, and they aren't usually unfamiliar with the bands sound or songs.

The best thing any touring band can spend their money on is a good traveling foh person.
Click to expand...

Hell, we're just a bar band and we use our own foh person. (Part of the business model: We never get complaints from owners that the bartenders can't hear orders because we're too loud).
 
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#16
two fingers said:
I have said it in countless threads. No matter what the boomers and 70s kids (my generation) say, 90s rock is now "classic rock". 30 years before 1985 was 1955. Don't you think we called 50s music "oldies" by 1985? :D

In 1985 I was in high school playing for "oldies reviews" put on by the drama club. That music was from the 50s..... thirty years earlier. If my Googling is correct, both those bands' first major releases were 27 and 28 years ago.... pushing 30.

Back on topic.... pretty much every concert but a few I have been to in the last decade have been way too boomy.
Click to expand...

When I started listening to the radio in '64 any thing that had left the chart was a golden oldie on the radio (they'd play something a year or so old once an hour). We'd generally refer to tunes from before our times as moldy oldies.

I do keep waiting for this heavy kick and bass thing to pass.
 
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#19
A good friend of mine is a sound engineer (studio & live) and was on tour with Soundgarden, Queensryche and others in the 90s while living in LA for a few years.
He confirmed to me that bigger bands often tried to make sure their opening acts not only got little to no time for soundcheck, but if they happened to sound good, they would sometimes deliberately make them sound bad. Granted, it's not the norm, according to him, and it's usually not the headliner bands themselves doing it, but their road/tour managers.
 
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#20
Milw_Chad said:
Did the size of the crowd change from Better than Ezra to Barenaked Ladies? I imagine filling up a space with people will change the acoustics of the space. Bunch of bodies acting as bass traps.
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I thought of that too, but (1) the headliner does their sound check to an empty room, so if anybody sounds bad it should be the headliner after the room fills up, and (2) any semi-competent "house" sand man should be able to tell after a song or two if the mix for the opener is terrible, and be able to do something to improve it by the end of a 50-min+ set.

I don't want to believe the sabotage theory. Just the thought of that makes me sick to my stomach.
 
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