Is there something about opening acts?

[JimmyM]

I thought of that too, but (1) the headliner does their sound check to an empty room, so if anybody sounds bad it should be the headliner after the room fills up, and (2) any semi-competent "house" sand man should be able to tell after a song or two if the mix for the opener is terrible, and be able to do something to improve it by the end of a 50-min+ set.

I don't want to believe the sabotage theory. Just the thought of that makes me sick to my stomach.

They don't think of it as sabotage. They think of it as "Hey, we're giving you this great opportunity and a paycheck, so be happy and take what we give you. This includes cutting down on the lighting, keeping volumes down, not letting you have much stage room, and screwing your mix. And sometimes it's done without the artist even knowing. I once saw a local band get the shiv opening up for The Police.

 

[Boundary Effect]

Head-lining acts dictate what is supplied for FOH mixer. Their FOH engineer often has very well developed set-up/settings for the specified console that he loads into the console. So if the system is reasonably well tuned, the mix is probably 90% in the pocket starting with the first note. This is not often the case with the opening acts. Either the sound company's supplies an FOH engineer who at best has familiarize him self with the band's material, or the band brings their own guy who is less experienced and may not have setting for the FOH console. I heard a concert at an outdoor amphitheater when the opening act sounded horrid. I recognized an acquaintance who is on the audio staff, so I approached and asked him about it. The top notch sound system has a lot of processing dedicated to keeping the venue within local noise ordinances. The opening act's sound man was clueless on how to mix on that butting up against restrictions in an ugly way. The band's sound man was unwilling to take direction from the staff.

 

[juancaminos]

There is a theory that the mix is sometimes deliberately used to ensure support acts don't overshadow the main act.

This

 

[fu22ba55]

I don't want to believe the sabotage theory. Just the thought of that makes me sick to my stomach.

Sad but true, there are nice people and crappy people everywhere, in any line of work.

It's called show business, not show everyone-be-nice-to-each-other.

I've toured with national acts that are super considerate, and move their drum kits off stage after soundcheck, and national acts that leave 100% of their gear setup on stage and force my 5 piece to set up in the remaining 10" at the front of the stage.

I've heard some (metal/hard rock) bands demand (in their rider) that opening acts can only use a percentage of the PA's total power, so the headliner will sound more loud when they appear.

Treat your bill-mates how you'd like to be treated, no matter where you are on the bill. Remember this thread when you're the headliner and some green kids are opening up for you.

 

[Lobster11]

They don't think of it as sabotage. They think of it as "Hey, we're giving you this great opportunity and a paycheck, so be happy and take what we give you. This includes cutting down on the lighting, keeping volumes down, not letting you have much stage room, and screwing your mix. And sometimes it's done without the artist even knowing. I once saw a local band get the shiv opening up for The Police.

I have no problem with most of this. The headliners and their crew shouldn't be expected to go out of their way to create more space on stage, or create a fancy light show, or help haul gear, etc. for the openers. And there are several good reasons to have the openers at lower volume than the headliners. But deliberately making them sound bad on stage seems to me something else altogether. It can't be defended with "Hey, we're giving you this opportunity" because it defeats the very purpose of the so-called opportunity, which is to attract new fans and satisfy old ones. I don't see how it is any less awful than slashing their tires or setting fire to their equipment.

 

[pjbassist]

There is a theory that the mix is sometimes deliberately used to ensure support acts don't overshadow the main act.

So much this! I have been on the receiving end of "Opening Act Sabotage" many times, most, if not all of the time, the National Act doesn't even know its happening.

True story: About 10 years ago my band was opening for a National Country Act who arrived late to the small venue. Their load in/sound check ran so long, there was no time for us to soundcheck or even load our gear onstage. The promoter insisted that they cancel us, to which the National band and FOH objected, and even offered us to "Use their gear" since it was up there and soundchecked! We could not believe what we were hearing, and of course took them up on the offer. To this day, every member of that band remembers that show as the best we've ever sounded in all our years playing live music! (30 years +) It was like magic on that stage, we could not thank all those touring Nashville musicians enough for sticking up for us and letting us use their gear!

 

[juancaminos]

There is a famous story about John Cougar flipping out and trowing things over his crappy mix as an opening act way back when.

 

[ClusterFlux]

Big name headliners tour with their own foh sound person and monitor guys (girls).

I remember how Rollins Band treated and credited the sound engineer like a member of the band. He even shows up in some of their videos.

 

[MCS4]

I've heard some (metal/hard rock) bands demand (in their rider) that opening acts can only use a percentage of the PA's total power, so the headliner will sound more loud when they appear.

I saw Tool maybe five or six years ago, and there was a huge jump in the volume and overall "presence" of sound from the opener (Yob, themselves a highly regarded act in the metal scene) to Tool's set -- so much so that I thought they might not have even been using all of the arena's speakers when Yob played. I have no idea if that was intentional on Tool's part, though.

 

[P-oddz]

After playing a number of opening sets for larger national acts, I'm more inclined to believe that it's just the amount of effort the sound crew is willing to put into an opening act, and if the headliners have their stuff together or not.

At venues, the majority of headliners will be back-lined and will have extensive soundchecks. As an opening act (IME), you mostly squeeze on stage in quick fashion. You often don't get the same amount of time allotted for sound check (if any) or stage prep, and sometimes are given secondary mics or DI boxes so as not to disturb settings or mic placements that have already been determined for the headlining band. This can all add up to sound issues.

 

[Aberdumbie]

Interestingly.... I saw Boston open for a very well worn and at odds Black Sabbath back in the 70's. As expected, Boston kicked booty and took names. We all left the hall looking for that groups 8-track. I would bet given that scenario today, Boston would have been made to sound like a garage band.

 

[bearfoot]

I was assuming that it would be just that openers don't get the time to sound check the way headliners do, but then wouldn't it be equally likely that their bass was too LOW and inaudible (which I've never seen)?

I think it would not be an equal probability, and in a hustle, chances are greater for too much volume.
You do a level check, turn it up to taste from the sound booth, and go. Not realizing that part of the venue is booming with too much bass.

 

[MrLenny1]

Must have been a different sound guy.
I saw Little Feat & Neville Brothers on the same bill.
They shared the same backline.
Little Feat's mix was so bad I could hardly recognize the tunes.
Neville Brotheers went on with their own sound man and sounded great.

 

[P-oddz]

So much this! I have been on the receiving end of "Opening Act Sabotage" many times, most, if not all of the time, the National Act doesn't even know its happening.

True story: About 10 years ago my band was opening for a National Country Act who arrived late to the small venue. Their load in/sound check ran so long, there was no time for us to soundcheck or even load our gear onstage. The promoter insisted that they cancel us, to which the National band and FOH objected, and even offered us to "Use their gear" since it was up there and soundchecked! We could not believe what we were hearing, and of course took them up on the offer. To this day, every member of that band remembers that show as the best we've ever sounded in all our years playing live music! (30 years +) It was like magic on that stage, we could not thank all those touring Nashville musicians enough for sticking up for us and letting us use their gear!

Your story turned out well. I've been on the opposite end of that experience.

Opening for a headlining act at Summerfest (Milwaukee's, and "the World's largest" music festival) like 2 years back.
We had an elaborate show planned and rehearsed, complete with an additional horn section. We were going to ABSOLUTELY SLAY that 45 minute set.

We arrive at stage at the required time only to find out that the headliner requested extra time for their set up, and kicked us down to a 20 minute set. They apparently had even wanted us booted from the line up, but thankfully someone stuck up for us somewhere. We hustled on stage while determining which songs to cut from the set so that we could hit 20 minutes.

We got off stage early and no one stepped on stage from them until their originally scheduled time. They booted us and didn't do ANYTHING with the extra time! Adding insult to injury, they kicked us out of our green room early because they said they needed more room for their fans. We paid horn players that barely got to play and I had family and friends in from out of town say that they were surprised our set was so short. Yeah... so was I.

I will forever hate that band because of it.
(Cough, cough) Violent Femmes (cough).

 

[fishdreams]

Heard that a year ago when we went to see High On Fire as a support act for Meshuggah. HOF sounded like badly mixed barband, with guitar and bass drowning in each other's mid freqs, and Matt's vocals barely audible, and Meshuggah sounded fantastic, sparkling and detailed from the first note. Day and Night. Of course, HOF is sonically and stylistically way more Motorhead than Meshuggah ever will be, but still.

 

[Jeremy Jones]

I have seen where the board was set for the headliner and the opening band just had to deal with the settings. So, in this case, the bass was set to hot for Openers but just right for the headliner.

 

[TrevorR]

KT Tunstall is amazing, by the way, and I can't say enough good things about her. Great solo performer.

BNL are great but I love, love, love KT! That's a pretty great line up for a gig!

Any excuse to post these to vids for those who've not had the pleasure of coming across Ms Tunstall!

Great story too. This was her big break after years schlepping the London singer songwriter circuit. An act pulled out of the recording at the last minute so she was called up and asked if she could appear to fill the a lot. This is what she did... and remember, this was before every earnest singer with an acoustic guitar had a loop station. This was the first time most of the UK ever heard one!


And I just love this song...

 

[JKos]

After playing a number of opening sets for larger national acts, I'm more inclined to believe that it's just the amount of effort the sound crew is willing to put into an opening act, and if the headliners have their stuff together or not.

At venues, the majority of headliners will be back-lined and will have extensive soundchecks. As an opening act (IME), you mostly squeeze on stage in quick fashion. You often don't get the same amount of time allotted for sound check (if any) or stage prep, and sometimes are given secondary mics or DI boxes so as not to disturb settings or mic placements that have already been determined for the headlining band. This can all add up to sound issues.

A band of friends for whom I had done their first studio engineering work eventually got a record deal. They toured the country as the opening act of a quite famous, long running band. I went to see one of the shows. I was absolutely appalled by the sound/mix during their time on stage. I stood at the back rail of the mixing booth which was on the open floor about 4/5ths back. The FOH guy did absolutely nothing on the board while they played. Nothing. He was too busy talking to people.

While the band was playing, time for a guitar solo came but I didn't hear the solo. Lead guitarist was going to town on stage but you couldn't hear him. At all. Nothing. FOH guy didn't even notice.

But, you better believe the quite famous, long running band's sound was absolutely killer.

I asked the guys about it after the show. (They got me back stage by slipping me the drummer's security badge. ) Yep, they consistently got gipped on sound check time. Yep, they had been told by several folks that their sound was never all that great out front. Argh.

- John

 

[JimmyM]

A band of friends for whom I had done their first studio engineering work eventually got a record deal. They toured the country as the opening act of a quite famous, long running band. I went to see one of the shows. I was absolutely appalled by the sound/mix during their time on stage. I stood at the back rail of the mixing booth which was on the open floor about 4/5ths back. The FOH guy did absolutely nothing on the board while they played. Nothing. He was too busy talking to people.

While the band was playing, time for a guitar solo came but I didn't hear the solo. Lead guitarist was going to town on stage but you couldn't hear him. At all. Nothing. FOH guy didn't even notice.

But, you better believe the quite famous, long running band's sound was absolutely killer.

I asked the guys about it after the show. (They got me back stage by slipping me the drummer's security badge. ) Yep, they consistently got gipped on sound check time. Yep, they had been told by several folks that their sound was never all that great out front. Argh.

- John

And people think the audience doesn't notice that stuff. My ass they don't!

 

[Funky Ghost]

I'm traveling in Kansas City, and Saturday night caught the Barenaked Ladies' "Last Summer on Earth" tour. KT Tunstall and Better than Ezra opening, it was "get your 90s on" night. The two bands reminded us that their first albums came out 25 and 30 years ago, respectively, which seems weird.

Anywho...Good show, fun night, everyone played well. But...

In Better than Ezra's set, the bass was WAY too loud in the mix. It was BASS BASS BASS and then the vocals and the rest of the band kinda audible somewhere behind it. I'm a bassist, I like my low end brother to be heard, but... geez.

BNL came on as the headliner and the mix was perfect. Bass was audible, clear and punchy but not overdone.

I've heard the same thing in the past, shows where the opening act would have this overpowering boomy bass tone and then the headliner is mixed to perfection. I was assuming that it would be just that openers don't get the time to sound check the way headliners do, but then wouldn't it be equally likely that their bass was too LOW and inaudible (which I've never seen)? And anyway, this seemed more of a triple-bill than obscure opener and big-time headliner. Or do sound engineers just default to "crank the bass" when they don't have time to create a better mix? Or are the bassists getting a say in what they want and asking to be blasted that loud?

KT Tunstall is amazing, by the way, and I can't say enough good things about her. Great solo performer.

KT sings one of my favorite songs that I was very late to the party to, Miracle. It's just remarkable.