Is there something about opening acts?

[40Hz]

I have said it in countless threads. No matter what the boomers and 70s kids (my generation) say, 90s rock is now "classic rock". 30 years before 1985 was 1955. Don't you think we called 50s music "oldies" by 1985?

Yep. There's "original" classic, "cassette era" classic, and "cable era" (i.e. post the advent of MTV) classic rock.

 

[comatosedragon]

I would have loved to have seen Better Than Ezra! The other two bands, not so much.
But I think most of Better Than Ezra's songs are pretty bass-driven anyway (especially the material from Deluxe). Maybe they were trying to capture that feel.

 

[redwingxix]

In all the times I noticed it at shows I always subscribed to the sabotage theory. Sometimes it is so bad that I can't believe anyone wasn't actively trying to make it sound so crummy, I mean you should be able to get a better mix on accident than just hearing some muted drums, unintelligible vocals and only bass notes played on the low e string.

 

[Turbo Sparky]

25 years ago or so, Clutch opened for COC....2016, COC opened for Clutch...
Didn't see them 25 years ago, but in 2016 COC sounded like bullshinto, but Clutch was mixed nearly perfect on first song, absolutely perfect by first chord of second....
Opening for SubHumAns was muddy, SubHumAns mixed almost perfect for punk....
There is one venue where we have played first twice...second and headliners always sounded pretty darn good.... we decided NOT to open there last year anymore, and when we have played there after that... some call it sonic magic...POOF! We sounded great out in the venue... slipping the FOH a $20 BEFORE the show seems to help.
However, BTE has been around long enough to KNOW what they should sound like...management, group, FOHs etc. I know shinto happens, but it's another red pill moment if you're paying attention...
and I don't want to hear about hollow stages/risers, open-air venue, old walls, blah blah...
It's like going to Vegas... the house always wins... probably raised subs a bit on board(s)... cheesey move.

 

[Zant]

If the opening act had have just let the mixing desk know that they knew where his car was parked, it may have removed one variable.

I truly believe that it is delivered that way to insure the headliner is just that headline

 

[Wasnex]

Anywho...Good show, fun night, everyone played well. But...

In Better than Ezra's set, the bass was WAY too loud in the mix. It was BASS BASS BASS and then the vocals and the rest of the band kinda audible somewhere behind it. I'm a bassist, I like my low end brother to be heard, but... geez.

BNL came on as the headliner and the mix was perfect. Bass was audible, clear and punchy but not overdone.

I've heard the same thing in the past, shows where the opening act would have this overpowering boomy bass tone and then the headliner is mixed to perfection.

Funny, I have seen the exact opposite happen. Years ago when I saw the Beach Boys, the opening act sounded great and the volume was perfect.

When the Beach Boys came on, the audio tech basically maxed out all of the faders on the mixing board. The volume was way more than I could take and everything was distorted .

Most of the fans loved it, including my ex and her brother. We had arrived early and laid out a blanket in a great location. I walked about 100 yds back. The sound was still awful, but at least I wasn't going deaf .

Pretty sure the opening act was contractually obligated to limit volume.

 

[Nephilymbass]

I'm traveling in Kansas City, and Saturday night caught the Barenaked Ladies' "Last Summer on Earth" tour. KT Tunstall and Better than Ezra opening, it was "get your 90s on" night. The two bands reminded us that their first albums came out 25 and 30 years ago, respectively, which seems weird.

Anywho...Good show, fun night, everyone played well. But...

In Better than Ezra's set, the bass was WAY too loud in the mix. It was BASS BASS BASS and then the vocals and the rest of the band kinda audible somewhere behind it. I'm a bassist, I like my low end brother to be heard, but... geez.

BNL came on as the headliner and the mix was perfect. Bass was audible, clear and punchy but not overdone.

I've heard the same thing in the past, shows where the opening act would have this overpowering boomy bass tone and then the headliner is mixed to perfection. I was assuming that it would be just that openers don't get the time to sound check the way headliners do, but then wouldn't it be equally likely that their bass was too LOW and inaudible (which I've never seen)? And anyway, this seemed more of a triple-bill than obscure opener and big-time headliner. Or do sound engineers just default to "crank the bass" when they don't have time to create a better mix? Or are the bassists getting a say in what they want and asking to be blasted that loud?

KT Tunstall is amazing, by the way, and I can't say enough good things about her. Great solo performer.

First band is always the test dummy so to speak. Especially for a tour where the soundguys aren't familiar with the room. Sound check is basically to make sure everything is working. The mix always has to be adjusted again once the venue is full of people. Opening bands suffer through it. I've also been to some shows where the headliners were douche bags and didn't let the opening band use the full PA, but that's another topic

 

[joebar]

My original band has been playing/ opening for some big name clubs/casinos. So far, we've had great sound out front and the videos prove it.
We opened at a casino gig with two other bands; all three bands were painfully loud- I had ear plugs in all night; the quietest place was onstage.

 

[Spectrum]

Better Than Ezra is a good band, and they're certainly not n00bs to the business, so there is no excuse for them to sound bad. It's not like they're a local band that doesn't know any better.

That said, I have been to shows where even the headliner sounded awful. I've seen Thievery Corporation outdoors twice, and both times the sound was hideous for them and for their openers. All kick drum and mud bass, couldn't make out a single note or vocal from anyone. The only difference was that TC was louder, so the awful sound was amplified more.

 

[gitfiddl]

I haven't done anything on a "large venue scale" in a decade or more, but back in the late 1980's, the 50's/60's band I was playing with, The Gold Tones, opened (or played early) at several day-long festivals at the now-defunct (for the most part) Metro Park here in Jacksonville, FL. Headliners for those 6-8 multiband shows included the Beach Boys and the Charlie Daniels Band. Middle of bill acts included the likes of ARS, Three Dog Night, the Shirelles, Gary US Bonds, et cetera. The FOH mixing location was on a 20' high scaffold maybe 200' out from the stage. These were the days before line-arrays were the fashion, so there were huge stacks of mains to either side of the stage, with racks of amps next to them. We all had proper passes and were free to hang out back stage and in the communal hospitality/dressing room. When we went on early in the day, a single rack each side was powered up. By the time the headliner took the stage, all of the rack were up and running. Anyway, our soundchecks were limited to "signal checks" for the DI'd stuff, a couple of drum mic checks and maybe a chorus of a tune to check the background vocals. That was it. Everything always worked.

Well, except for my argument with Mike Love, who didn't like sharing the dressing room and hospitality area with lowly folks like me and my bandmates, even though they were using my electric piano and our drummer's snare because of a roadie mishap...

 

[Gearhead17]

I have seen sound dudes just sit back as the opener band plays and DO NOTHING to fix the sound. Or simply improve/balance it. I truly believe some of these guys are sabotaging the opener act. I am of the mindset that people paid money to see the bands on the bill and we should get decent sound for all openers/middle bands. The headliner can sound better, that's OK, but not 10x better. If the headliner is worried about being shown up, maybe they should practice? Write better music? Have some integrity? Fragile ego's eh?

 

[Altitude]

They don't think of it as sabotage. They think of it as "Hey, we're giving you this great opportunity and a paycheck, so be happy and take what we give you. This includes cutting down on the lighting, keeping volumes down, not letting you have much stage room, and screwing your mix. And sometimes it's done without the artist even knowing. I once saw a local band get the shiv opening up for The Police.

Miles admitted in his biography that he did it. Or sanctioned it.

 

[Phil508]

got to see John Fogarty opening for ZZ Top last Sunday at Mohegan Sun. Both Mixes sucked on different (Identical ) Boards, had a mid hum all night. When the music did not exaggerate the hum it sounded OK.

 

[StatesideRambler]

When I learn from reliable sources that a headliner (whether it's the band, the management, the sound guy or whoever) pulls that crap on an opener I strike them from my list of acts to go see.

 

[LordRyan]

Another opposite situation. I was at Madison Square Gardens a few years ago where the Arctic Monkeys were the opening act and sounded fine. The headliner was the Black Keys. There was so much booming low end that I found them unlistenable. It had to be coming from the drums since they were only a duo on about half the songs. Judging by the audience reaction I was the only one to notice the extreme boominess.

 

[JimmyM]

Miles admitted in his biography that he did it. Or sanctioned it.

I totally believe it.

 

[Rayjay]

I agree with the theory that it was probably 2 different guys mixing. BNL almost surely had their own sound guy and BTE probably did too or used the house guy. Especially since BNL uses a DB, which are more prone to feedback, they almost surely tour with their own soundman who is familiar with how to mix them.

Additionally, one or both sound guys might have been mixing remotely from somewhere besides the console on an iPad.

 

[Buffalo Cats]

Touring sound dude here.

Openers rarely get much time to sound check. It's the headliners show. They get to do whatever they like. I've been on tours where the headliner checked for 4 hours and the opener got 45 minutes.

House sound guys generally do sound for the openers. Many times they are complacent, suck, or new.

Lastly, since many openers don't have crew to tell them what to do. They make strange decisions on stage. Things like turning a 1600 watt bass amp all the way up. Even in a large venue (2500 Cap), this can destroy a mix. I run into this all the time.

Live sound is difficult and full of compromises. When any on part of the backline, engineer, and time are ignored; you will have a really bad mix.

 

[Luciferiad]

At what is currently our semi-regular venue, we are an opening act for groups ranging from prominent locals to national acts to even the occasional international act. Usually we're up first because although all three of us have done a fair bit of playing, our group is fairly new (about 1 year) and we only have about an hour and a half of material (all original).

Whichever act is up first is the only opening act that gets a sound check anything beyond just confirming everything still works. Of late we have been up closer to the headliners, and our stage mix was just a wreck at our last show.

I don't understand it since the venue has good enough equipment to save settings and you'd thing the owner/soundguy would do so for his regulars. We're in there once a month.

I totally understand the "guinea pig" reference. I think that's exactly what it is. Even if we're up first and get a good a good mix for both us and the audience, it's not gonna work for the next act. I insist on DI for my FOH feed instead of a mic, and our drummer uses a very potent snare. What we have that works won't be right for anyone else. What's right for others won't work for us. So sound guy gets to adjust on the fly with each act.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

I've heard both ways. I saw Johnny Cougar when he was a complete unknown play in front of Kiss. He and his band sounded great. Kiss sounded like a locomotive moving heavy cars around a rail yard.

Saw Jerry Jeff Walker play in front of the Marshall Tucker band. JJW sounded like a piano sliding down a washboard for the duration of their set. Marshall Tucker Band sounded like a CD before there were CDs.

A few years ago at an annual outdoor party that hit its 30th year last year, a young band played in front of us. They were not so good, and had some pretty crappy gear. We did our very best to get them a good mix. We had a decent PA, with wireless tablet control of the board, and a sound man that has been doing live shows for years. He can fly through the channels, adjust the parametric EQ frequency & bandwidth, add compression, effects, etc. to improve the sound very precisely for each channel. In the 45 minutes or so the first band played, he gained nothing. They kept jacking with their own stage sound and our sound guy never caught up with them.

When we hit the stage, we dialed in our general starting point sound (developed over 20 + years), and by halfway through the second song, we pretty well had our mix down. A fan of the first band approached me from side stage after our first set and accused us of giving the first band a bad mix, intentionally. All I could say was, "we did the best we could, and I agree, it was awful, but it wasn't intentional". That was true, but the young band's fan didn't believe me.

Sometimes you try as hard as you can, but fail for a variety of reasons.