Issues with stage volume

[crucislancer]

There is a very high correlation between bands with volume wars on stage and sounding like crap to an audience.

If you want to sound good, you need to give the sound person a fighting chance - play at a reasonable and balanced level, and let the PA take it up to what fits the venue.

I haven't played a gig with guitar amps on stage in several years, and I hear positive comments about sound a lot more now. Coincidence?

One of the things that may have messed up your last set was...a combination of alcohol and ear fatigue. Your hearing is adversely affected by alcohol, add in ear fatigue, and just plain bad decisions caused by alcohol, and things can get out of hand quickly.

The sound guy is the same guy who wrote the message, the lead guitarist. Good point about the booze and ear fatigue!

 

[TomB]

See what happens. One thing his note conveys: he has no interest in adjusting to your suggestions. If ear protection doesn’t solve the problem for you (I’m never without), maybe it’s time to move on.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

2. Once volume is set at soundcheck, why is anyone turning and wasting the soundcheck?

"I don't get why it always sounds different when it's time to play. I was getting such great room reverb earlier."

 

[crucislancer]

See what happens. One thing his note conveys: he has no interest in adjusting to your suggestions. If ear protection doesn’t solve the problem for you, maybe it’s time to move on.

That's how I'm reading as well. What I think I'll need to research now is good IEMs.

As far as whether to move on, that's been something I have considered, not just for the volume issues but others as well.

 

[TomB]

That's how I'm reading as well. What I think I'll need to research now is good IEMs.

As far as whether to move on, that's been something I have considered, not just for the volume issues but others as well.

Yeah. A constant dose of the attitude I just read would surely fray my nerves.

 

[micguy]

The sound guy is the same guy who wrote the message, the lead guitarist. Good point about the booze and ear fatigue!

Sound guy = lead guitarist = Mettalica all over again. You're Jason in this analogy. It doesn't end well.

Having your lead guitarist as the sound guy is wrong on a whole bunch of levels. You REALLy need someone who isn't a player to do that job, unless you're OK with being in a band that sucks.

 

[DirtDog]

That's how I'm reading as well. What I think I'll need to research now is good IEMs.

As far as whether to move on, that's been something I have considered, not just for the volume issues but others as well.

I had to do that in one of my bands (that weren’t on IEMs already). I just took a AUX feed from the board so I could hear vox and I had a little mixer so I could monitor my bass as well. Guitars and drums just seeped in, no need for any of that in my IEMs. These guys played LOUD! I had to do something to protect what was left of my hearing.

 

[DirtDog]

Sound guy = lead guitarist = Mettalica all over again. You're Jason in this analogy. It doesn't end well.

Having your lead guitarist as the sound guy is wrong on a whole bunch of levels. You REALLy need someone who isn't a player to do that job, unless you're OK with being in a band that sucks.

Before I retired from gigging I owned and supplied the PA. It was a constant battle to keep the guitarist in check. Since we were all on IEMs and mic’d I suggested he point his amp in a different direction. But it just didn’t “look” right for him.

it was that battle and the battle with the “too louds” in the crowd that wore me down in the end.

 

[micguy]

You said the magic word
“Two guitars”
Unless one of them is an acoustic, it’s a recipe for disaster

I play with two guitarists most weekends. Put them on in ears, take away their amps, let FOH determine how loud they are, and it can be a good thing.

 

[micguy]

Before I retired from gigging I owned and supplied the PA. It was a constant battle to keep the guitarist in check. Since we were all on IEMs and mic’d I suggested he point his amp in a different direction. But it just didn’t “look” right for him.

it was that battle and the battle with the “too louds” in the crowd that wore me down in the end.

There are lots of bands that have walls of Marshall cabinets for the right "look". In many cases, they're either empty or not plugged in . The actual amps are off stage somewhere, or maybe one of the cabinets is plugged in.

 

[TheReceder]

I had a discussion with a band about stage volume once. The only one on board with it was the sound man. He got the same attitude back that I did. I opted to let the sound man know what I was going to do the next gig.

I opted to bring 2 810s with a 2000 watt slave amp to our next gig. apparently they thought my biggest setup was a single 610. I only ran loud for a couple minutes before sound check then brought it back down to the sane level. I didn't say anything to anyone about volume, they didn't say anything to me. I just left it there in reserve. We never had a problem after that. I was back to a 610 the next gig.

PS... sound man offered to by my beer that night... said it was the best he was able to get us to sound.

 

[Chad Michael]

A good stage mix is just as important, if not more so, than a good front of house mix.

Most (not all) electric guitarists seem to suffer hearing loss when playing live. They turn their rig up to stupid.

So, what do you do?

1) tell them to please point their amp directly at their head and away from everyone else in the band
2) side - wash your bass amp (it doesn't have to face forward, it is for you and the band to hear. The PA is for the audience)
3) kid yourself by asking mr annoying to turn down
4) tell them to find another bass player because it isn't fun anymore

There may be other options, but after gigging for years, this is the reality... wish you the best of luck, and keep the faith on bass

 

[Chad Michael]

but constant griping about volume, FX or any other aspect of our sound is not going to fly with me.

Arrogance doesn't fly with me... (see, I can do it too)

 

[chadds]

Discuss it. Is it a business or a friends get together? Some people don't see this from a professional perspective and so none of it matters. Some hear the whole band and want it to all fit. If constructive criticism doesn't work leave the band. That criticism could be "turn up" or "play another solo the crowd digs it."

I've learned that if no one is grown enough to work together it only gets more intense when newer opportunities show up. Anyone who says okay and adjusts is a grownup. If (insert famous Pro here) hired all of them would they listen? Then to get there they need to listen to each other. You don't get professional then. You are now whether it's a cookout, a freebee, or opening for a national act. This whole thing is fun and hard enough without giving the event owner anything but positives.

 

[Killing Floor]

How long have you been in this band? Is this new? First time the guitars were too loud?

 

[ladybug]

Sound guy = lead guitarist = Mettalica all over again. You're Jason in this analogy. It doesn't end well.

Having your lead guitarist as the sound guy is wrong on a whole bunch of levels. You REALLy need someone who isn't a player to do that job, unless you're OK with being in a band that sucks.

Exactly, and a sound guy who you pay will tell you when things become unbalanced on stage.

 

[DWBass]

The difference between amateurs and pro/pro level musicians is the ability make your presence known without having to dime your volume levels. I also agree about guitarists bringing way too much amp/cab for the gig. I play with a guy who just won't downsize. His ability to blend in is always impaired. There's been several instances over the years where I was asked to turn up. I responded with 'Why are we so loud?'

 

[crucislancer]

How long have you been in this band? Is this new? First time the guitars were too loud?

3 years in July. This isn't new, the volume issues or the passive/aggressive comments from the guitarist. I thought things were getting better in that regard, but I guess not.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

Last night my band played a new venue, and while the gig was good for the most part, there was some volume issues that came up during the last set. The volume on both guitars came up quite a bit at that point, so loud that I had to say something about it to both guitarists. One of them brought his level down, but the other just laughed when I mentioned it. This morning, the lead guitarist had this to say on our shared band group:

"Hey guys. Good show last night. Definitely better sound than last Friday. I know there's work to do on guitar mix, but please make an effort to be kind. Positive input is welcomed, but constant griping about volume, FX or any other aspect of our sound is not going to fly with me.

Let's continue to do the best we can, given the resources and time that we all have. Each new room brings with it a new learning curve. So please give this some time. At least more time than a 10-minute soundcheck provides.

I won't be coming out early to move cabinets or re-wire stuff. The Saturday crowd will just have to hear what the Friday crowd heard. And, the packed stage will just have to be a packed stage again. Next time we play there, we'll know some different things to try.

One last thought to ponder.........rock and roll is not lounge music. If anyone can't deal with volume, go play music at a nursing home."

As far as I know, I was the only one "griping" about the volume, and it was only that last set. Not sure how to deal with this. My first instinct is to call him up and discuss, but this kind of message pisses me off, so a discussion might turn into a shouting match. I guess I'll take the day to calm down, and just deal with his volume issues as best I can with my mouth shut.

First off, it only happened last set. Normally I would say ask the guitarist. Unfortunately he has laid the ground rules for future conversations, "no negativity".

Sorry that doesn't play with me. He'd be would be given the chance to respond or be replaced.

He wants more time spent on a sound check, but states he won't be showing up early for anything, though maybe that might not include a sound check.

His reaction about volume being just fine, might not make the club owner happy or lead to future dates, so THAT is a problem.

Since you were the only one griping, you might want to reconsider this band.

It could be you, but his attitude is concerning.

 

[crucislancer]

The difference between amateurs and pro/pro level musicians is the ability make your presence known without having to dime your volume levels. I also agree about guitarists bringing way too much amp/cab for the gig. I play with a guy who just won't downsize. His ability to blend in is always impaired. There's been several instances over the years where I was asked to turn up. I responded with 'Why are we so loud?'

Surprisingly, both guitarists are using Fender combos. However, the lead player has a Line6 board with a bazillion patches on it with various volume levels. He chose one that was high volume and the other guitarist raised his volume to match.