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It's all relative...

OK, I get it after reading the OP's post this morning. Rock is visceral.

One of the most memorable rock experiences in my life happened when I saw Lynrd Skynerd in Milwaukee in the mid '70's. They opened with "Working for MCA" and the sheer impact of the first note about knocked the wind out of me. Never heard a band come on stage and establish dominance with one chord like that ever again!

Where they loud - yes by mid 70's standards, no by today's. But that wasn't the whole story. They were the tightest band I've heard ever. The impact was due to their incredible tightness.
 
OK, I get it after reading the OP's post this morning. Rock is visceral.

ALL music is visceral, or should be and if it doesn't 'connect' then either you're not doing it right or you're playing to the wrong crowd.

Of course visceral means different things. It can mean loud and revved up and getting people over the top, or it can be slow and emotional and moving. In my case, the heavy grooves and loud bass/drums of reggae music should bring people to a primal place that makes people move almost involuntarily. When done right it feels ancient and deep and solid. We describe it to people as 'the heartbeat of the earth'.

When you hear a band that 'gets this' it can be a life changing experience. I remember the first band that I saw that did this and it was like going to church...a mystical experience.
 
I really like the spirit in which this thread started. Its a good point, sometimes you need a 10 pound hammer and sometimes you need a tack hammer. Need the rigtht tool for the right job and everyone is happy, especially your audience and they are the ones that matter most.

Todd :)
 
ALL music is visceral, or should be and if it doesn't 'connect' then either you're not doing it right or you're playing to the wrong crowd.

Of course visceral means different things. It can mean loud and revved up and getting people over the top, or it can be slow and emotional and moving. In my case, the heavy grooves and loud bass/drums of reggae music should bring people to a primal place that makes people move almost involuntarily. When done right it feels ancient and deep and solid. We describe it to people as 'the heartbeat of the earth'.

When you hear a band that 'gets this' it can be a life changing experience. I remember the first band that I saw that did this and it was like going to church...a mystical experience.

YES! All music (like all art forms) should be a moving experience. I read a lot of posts from players (on TB in general...not this thread) that feel sometimes they are nothing more than background white noise while the crowd goes about their normal "bar" activities as if there was no band at all.

I blame the band. I hear plenty of excuses by musicians for why "it ain't happening", from "it's because of DJ's and karaoke" to the economy (there was no crowd), but I still beleive it's all on the band. If we can't light a fire, nothing can. Now, as musicians we are not going to connect with every single person in a club, but it's an imperative of the band, regardless of style or genre, to generate an energy in the room that cannot be ignored. That has nothing to do with volume, however if you want people to take notice, or really demand they take notice, then perhaps that quiet, polite sound you're generating isn't getting your point across.

As interceptor had mentioned the impact Skynyrd had on him, if your band is audacious enough to crank it up and as musicians your skills as a band create this tightly focused "hammer", you can literally force people to immediately respond to the music you play. Only the band can create this unifying field of energy in a club. While patrons are milling about doing what anyone may do in a bar on any given night (band or no band), going about their business as individuals or small groups, only the band can provide them with a singular purpose for being there. Once you've grabbed their attention, only the band can keep it focused on this communal, unified purpose of sharing this energy.

Again, I lay it all on the band. It would be so easy to just do a mind numbing walk through of the same songs you've been playing your whole life to an inattentive crowd and just get through the night, just to get paid. But why even play music then? Is that the sole purpose of being a musician? I may be playing a song for the millionth time, but that song is just a vehicle for me to drive through the crowd and pick everyone up along the way.

There is nothing greater than whipping a crowd into an energetic frenzy. While playing music politely and quietly, so as not to disturb people's dinner or conversation, may be so politically correct and appease a bar owner, in the end is serves no useful purpose and everyone loses. I have yet to hear a bar owner complain about our loud volume because 10 people left over it, while 100 more people are in attendance because of it (and spending far more, per person, to quench the thirst of burning off this energy).

So yeah, I like it loud and need the equipment to do so. I see a lot of bands these days not understanding their purpose. But that has nothing to do with volume.
 
Not tryin' to stir the pot and I'm not being defensive about any comments, but I do think I need to clarify some things I said that have been misconstrued (to a point) as it relates to volume.

I do not equate volume with energy, in so far as making a "band has no energy if it isn't loud" kind of statement. What I mean by the use of volume as it relates to energy also needs to be put into context.

Anyone who has read my posts knows I play in a classic hard rock band. You will notice I often use AC/DC as a reference point. The reason for this is that while I love all kinds of rock music, AC/DC is the epitome of what I feel it means to be a rock band. If anyone has read any books or interviews of AC/DC, they'll know that they have an attitude with a singular purpose in mind. AC/DC has always been and continues to be about the straight-up power of rock music. Boring as the bass lines may appear to be to most bass players with any talent, there is a method to their madness. It's ALL about power and energy. Specifically it is about the power of a single note on bass or a single chord on guitar. It is ALL about space...the space between notes.

Now as that relates to "energy", what I love most about bass is the power of a single note. While playing frenetically fast melodic bass lines is a wonderful thing that has it's own energy, it is not where I am coming from. I do not understand the idea of bass players having to carry their sound out front on it's own without the aid of a PA. Bass out front without the drums also being equally out front is like having an engine with no transmission.

At the clubs we play, for the most part people are not coming to our shows to sit and have a few drinks over conversation. When we play there is this "pulse" happening. What I find to be beautiful about being a bass player in a hard rock band can be summed up in the synergy of a single note on my bass connecting with the hammer of the kick drum. It isn't about anything more than that for me. To know that every single note the drummer and I hit together creates this "pulse", this heartbeat, that for that singular moment binds all people in the room unavoidably together. Think of rhythmic tribal drumbeats that alone can put people in a meditative trance. This simple yet powerful force of bass and drums together is what the power of rock music is all about.

Now as it relates to volume...If we are trying to bring a room full of people together into a mass of singular purpose, how effective is it if the volume is such that people can hear it but do not feel it? How does one harness the power and energy of the collective group (the band and the crowd together) if people are focused on anything but this musical pulse? Volume. Now it need not be deafening, but it needs to grab the crowd's attention. It needs to be loud enough to provide an actual physical pulse to the room. It must be demanding in it's singular purpose of bringing people together as one mass of energy.

Studies have been done that prove we have an electric field around our hearts that goes outward about 6 feet. When a large group of people are in a room, all disjointed in purpose (getting drinks, having conversation, eating, watching sports on TV, etc.) the energy in the room is all over the place. This literal electric field is present in all, but disconnected. But once the band kicks in and cranks it up to a volume that creates this unavoidable pulse, this energy gets transformed into a unifying purpose. Everyone present is sucked into this vortex of music and it connects everyone together in this rhythmic harmony.

Watch what happens to the crowd as the volume goes up. Yes, some will not care for it, but overall the room of people becomes this mass of movement and unified energy where we are all feeding off each others energy. Even those that don't dance are unconsciously bobbing their head or tapping their foot.

So what I mean by having to be loud to create energy is not about the playing, it's about everyone feeling the pulse of the music, not simply hearing it like the band were a jukebox playing in the background while the crowd plays pool, shoots darts and laughs over jokes.

Rock music can be quite the powerful force...but not at low, polite volumes.

Well said!:bassist:
I have to say it's still powerful at low volumes. YMMV, and has.:)
 
Well said!:bassist:
I have to say it's still powerful at low volumes. YMMV, and has.:)

It really depends on the room and the crowd. As I mentioned in my previous post, a band has to take charge and get the crowd's energy up.

If a lower volume is sufficient, then I agree completely that it need not get loud. It's all about whatever it takes to get the job done right.

But that's why I have a rig capable of getting loud. Nothing is worse to me than needing to be loud, but can't.