It's all relative...

[smogg]

Here is my gig rig:
3X12 vertical array + 1000 watt power amp. Band is classic hard rock, 2 guitars both using full Marshall stacks and good hard hitting drummer playing top of the line Sonor kit. 2000 watt PA

Indoors:
We only run vocals though the mains & monitors. We mostly play small/medium sized bars and play loud but not make your ears bleed loud. We do our best to keep volumes appropriate to the size and shape of the room. We want to entertain our fans not abuse them.

Outdoors: the gloves come off, it is rock after all.

 

[jvdb]

I always play my 70's SVT rig. So that's 300 watt tubes with an 8x10. Sometimes I use two 8x10's. But that's when I play very large outdoor shows. One SVT seems overkill for a lot of people, but for me it's seems absolutely necessary. Our drummer plays a huge Gretsch kit, kick drum is 26". Two guitar players play Marshall plexi's and a Major, and a Fender Super.

I don't use monitoring.

 

[TL5]

Your right it is all relative. I mix and match amp/gear to be appropriate.

My main set-up is pedal board DI'd to FOH with IEMs.
Here's the pedalboard:
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The Tech 21 Sansamp VT Bass is always on.

Then there's the main alternate rig which has the pedalboard as preamp for Yamaha poweramp and cabinet stack:
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For one gig I have a completely different amp and cabinet, but use the pedalboard the same way:
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This one stays put. It's an older amp and cabinet that's too heavy to steal (hopefully). Since I don't have enough time to set-up properly, I leave it sitting there and only carry my pedalboard and bass.

Lastly, there's the church set-up. I run a hearback feed into the AUX in on a Fender Bassman 25 kicked back as a monitor. The line out goes to a DI/FOH. SO the amp simply functions as my monitor.
In the following two photos, you see the Hearback mixer with the line out (red&white phonos) and the face of the Bassman showing the connection to the AUX in.
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[Sundogue]

Good PA is a factor. I've heard a lot of crap PA with big amounts of distortion and it SEEMS louder and fatiguing compared to good PA that actually may be quite a bit louder. It really makes a difference to have distortion only where you want it intentionally - like on guitars and maybe bass - instead of everywhere on everything just killing intelligibility and definition and hiding dynamics in the total mix.

Definitely a Big +1 to that.

Unwanted distortion and a poorly mixed PA is annoying and does lead to ear fatigue. Compare that to a band that runs a clean PA and suddenly even louder volume is not only tolerable, it is desirable.

 

[fishsticks]

My dual 3620 rig(in my profile) was purchased for no other reason than to put a smile on my face.
oh and to compete with 2 full guitard stacks in a DoomCore (grind + doom + hardcore) band. i'm with metal Matt in that volume isn't to be heard but felt. and in our case the PA is for lead and gang vocals only. we play house shows basements and decks the occasional DC Venue. but mostly its for smiles and jamming with the guys.... brutally of course

 

[KJung]

Fun thread!

OK, I'll play. I primarily play freelance casuals with 'Party Band' type organizations (lot's of 70's and 80's funk/pop type music). For the most part, even in larger rooms, there is limited PA support, and almost never support for the bass. If there is, I rarely (VERY rarely) have my own monitor mix, so it is key to provide a pretty big oomph on stage.

For most gigs I do, I'm required to put a pillow under the band and project out to the edge of the dance floor (let's say 50 to 75 feet).

I use a variety of relatively traditional sounding J-type instruments, and do slap a bit when appropriate (i.e., 70's funk tunes, etc.). As I've posted before, the slapping, and also digging in to grind really puts a strain on a rig with those big transients.

So, I've settled into the 'lightest' rigs I could find that sounded good to me (since as a freelancer there is never any help with load-in/load-outs), and the 410 format as the optimum 'size per wump'. So, here's a picture of one of my two 'large gig rigs'.. a 4ohm Epi410UL with a Markbass F1 (the other is a Bergantino AE410). The cab is relatively efficient, and the F1 is a 'loud 500 watts' that doesn't compress down low when really pushed.

 

[sk8]

I only have one gig at the moment for the Baptist church. I used to use a Shuttle 6.0 and sinlge Neox 112 which was all i needed, even used it at an outdoor memorial service.

Really didn't like the 6.0 tube pre so chopped it for a Shuttle 3.0-10T combo and have not looked back.

The band i play in is Piano, Saxaphone, Violin and 2 acoustic guitars (One amped but not excessively so). I also used the neox under to combo to give me a 10 and 12 but it was really overkill as the combo by itself could cover the gig.

I sold the 112 with a view of getting something completely different but a used Neox 212 came up at a price i couldn't refuse so i bought it! Sounded great at home but wasn't convinced about it in the church and considered getting rid and going for a another 10 or 210. Then i worked out that the sound i liked form the combo involved the tweeter (which is on all the time) so i turned it up all the way on the 212 and its been great since.

I always think that the 3.0 and 212 won't be enough but i am honestly not doing anything that needs anymore (unfortunaltey)

Thinking about maybe getting an orange terror bass as i think that and the neox would kill. really like the combo and its a breeze to move and always makes people do a double take.

Really like the 3.0 and if i needed more serious watts i'd consider DI out the shuttle into a power amp as the its got me covered soundwise.

Have to say i really like the Tech 21 VT Pedal in front of my shuttle on and SVT ish setting thats put a smile on my face but its a bit too much for the church but for a rockband settings thats what i'm using for my sound

 

[Sundogue]

Fun thread!

OK, I'll play. I primarily play freelance casuals with 'Party Band' type organizations (lot's of 70's and 80's funk/pop type music). For the most part, even in larger rooms, there is limited PA support, and almost never support for the bass. If there is, I rarely (VERY rarely) have my own monitor mix, so it is key to provide a pretty big oomph on stage.

For most gigs I do, I'm required to put a pillow under the band and project out to the edge of the dance floor (let's say 50 to 75 feet).

I use a variety of relatively traditional sounding J-type instruments, and do slap a bit when appropriate (i.e., 70's funk tunes, etc.). As I've posted before, the slapping, and also digging in to grind really puts a strain on a rig with those big transients.

So, I've settled into the 'lightest' rigs I could find that sounded good to me (since as a freelancer there is never any help with load-in/load-outs), and the 410 format as the optimum 'size per wump'. So, here's a picture of one of my two 'large gig rigs'.. a 4ohm Epi410UL with a Markbass F1 (the other is a Bergantino AE410). The cab is relatively efficient, and the F1 is a 'loud 500 watts' that doesn't compress down low when really pushed.

With regards to context, you are absolutely right on about a rig handling the transients of slapping and/or digging in. A lot of rigs that could handle straight playing might be driven into oblivion with slapping/popping techniques. A good thing to consider that often gets overlooked.

Also one can get by with less cabs/watts if an efficient cab is used. There are a lot of cabs that can get loud but need a lot of power to do so and that will have a different effect on the choice of rig used for how it is applied.

What's the weight on that 410 Epi?

 

[KJung]

With regards to context, you are absolutely right on about a rig handling the transients of slapping and/or digging in. A lot of rigs that could handle straight playing might be driven into oblivion with slapping/popping techniques. A good thing to consider that often gets overlooked.

Also one can get by with less cabs/watts if an efficient cab is used. There are a lot of cabs that can get loud but need a lot of power to do so and that will have a different effect on the choice of rig used for how it is applied.

What's the weight on that 410 Epi?

57 pounds, but they recently increased to about 67 pounds or so. The original models and the earlier Series II (which is what I own) feel featherweight, given their large size.

My Bergantino AE410 comes in at about 65 or so with cover and casters.

Both are light enough for me to carry up and down stairs and lift onto large stages myself, which is key.

Also, +1 to those transients requiring a more 'robust' backline rig. I do fine with my little TecAmp 212 rig (40 pound 212!), but once the band starts wumpin' and the thumb comes out, it's all over for most 212's or 2 x 112 rigs IMO!

 

[Doodaddy]

BTW, this clip is from an early evening winery gig I played a couple of weeks go. Terrible vid and sound quality, but it still has a bit of energy, no?

That looks amazingly fun.

 

[Buster Brown]

What I meant was I think you can get into it without ridiculous volume levels. Also, around here - lame music scene if you can even call it a scene - many gigs (at least for us) are in bar/restaurant type venues.

One of my bands played a new restaurant/bar venue. We do funkier jams on B-side standards. As the night went on we got a little loud. No one said anything, but you could tell. We have not been asked back, but the guitar player who played with us that night is there with his other band - at a lesser volume.

That's what we're dealing with.

OK...I understand...

And, this IS fun!! I absolutely enjoy reading what other guys/gals are doing concerning their rigs and (ultimately) their volume. It's cool to see adults expressing themselves without vitriol.....

STILL....you "older" guys think back....remember....there was a time (hell for 20-25 years) when a band would be laughed at if they weren't loud as all get out. I fully understand that times (and consequently - things) change. No problem there...but I still can't help but wonder if WE ALL haven't forgotten the "credo" of rock and roll - F*&K the establishment!!!

That sort of happened when Punk came in...but by then, I think the rest of us were too wrapped up in getting paid... Not that that's a bad thing, mind you!

You know, I never really thought about it - just pretty much went along with the crowd in terms of Amps and whatnot...tried not to ruffle "too many" feathers - sometimes it worked...others, not so much....but I still wonder if the "owners" of the club that hosts "Deep Purple" would tell them to "turn down".... hehe!!! Keep the replies coming guys!!

 

[NWB]

Another very important bit of information is what sort of bass is being used because that can have a very big effect on the demands of the amp/speaker.

For instance, my rig does quite well with my standard-tuned four-stringers, but if I played a fiver (with low B) that would put additional demand on the lo-freq. capabilities of the rig.

I could see a lot of practice/combo amps have some difficulty maintaining tone with the lower notes of an ERB.

Something to consider.

 

[Dogbertday]

I pull the rig to fit the situation. end of story. Yes at the end of the day I just wanna play loud and fast, but I know when that's appropriate. my quieter rig is just a 100watt Ampeg BA115 and my loud rig is a Hartke 410TP on top of a Hartke 115XL powered by an old Peavey (cant remember the model right now)

Honestly if you have a clean, balanced sound then loud sounds better than if you're just blasting away. And being an audiophile I deffinately think that if there's a good PA goin' on then stage volume should be your only concern

 

[rpsands]

I play in a medium progressive rock / reggae type band. The sound is very bass heavy with lots of lows required - lots of Sublime covers, Chili peppers, and in general bass heavy music. I require a rig that can put forth a lot of lows, but also cut, and my back is nothing special so I like it to be light.

We play outdoor shows, indoor shows in small to large clubs, pretty wide variety of venues. So far I've used either my neopak and 1x12 cab + PA support, or my DRB 3080 + iamp + Pa support. In the future I expect to use my LDS 115/6 + Iamp without PA support for most shows, as our PA guy is not cheap

For larger shows I will hook the 3080 and the 15/6 up, since the Iamp is 2 ohm steady.

In general, tone is not a big deal for me as long as I can hear myself, but for this band I need to be able to fill out a lot of lows, as the guitar dynamic tends to not involve many heavy guitar sounds, and the bottom end needs to be filled out for the sound. So being able to spit lots, and lots of bass from drop D to E, is super important for me - both on stage, so we enjoy what we're playing, and off-stage in situations with no PA support.

Now that our sound guy is out of our budget, I anticipate we will use our own PA - a bose stick and subs. Unfortunately, bose subs are pretty much worthless for electric bass, particularly since I drop D in a few songs which makes it fart badly. So for most of our shows I am going to be running all the bass.

I got a cabinet with excellent midrange dispersion and full lows, which can take a pounding, for those reasons

Also, until we find a new rhythm guitarist, I need to fill out the sound with some distortion, and the 15/6 sounds amazing distorted.

 

[chadds]

Few weeks ago I played a wine bar. Behind us floor to ceiling wine bottles tall tables in front with a big dining area beyond. We are basically playing to those right in front and the patrons in the dining area can talk and eat and listen. Toward the end of the night they often come up front or stay seated and cheer wildly.

This is the place that because of the actual size of the room 2 1x12s were adequate but not ideal. The room is good for duo jazz guitar, singer stuff too.

We played this time with a tasteful drummer who knows to use "rods". The guitarist, the replacement for the guitarist of Dokken has his ridiculous Bogner and a 2x12. I had an IP310 with Glock pre. The audience loved us. We weren't too loud. We were authentic however. Real metal, real rock, real funk, with a little country and jazz.

A day after the gig we get a call from one of the diners to play a wine tasting at a church. Good pay. Who would have thought a rock/metal trio playing a wine bar would attract this kind of gig. Color, tone, intensity, fidelity without volume. Just sayin'.

 

[Interceptor]

Ok, I'll play.

My work has been mostly small venue / corporate / mansions. Work with either a three piece jazz group or a vocals oriented country rock outfit.

In both situations, things are relatively low volume. Both have real energy that do not need volume to make up for talent, and have deeply dedicated people involved. Madison isn't an easy town to get booked in year after year. We get booked.

I use a Thunderfunk into an Epifani T-112. It is all I need for most situations, I get PA at the bigger gigs, and my rig works great as a stage monitor those rare nights.

 

[Sundogue]

Not tryin' to stir the pot and I'm not being defensive about any comments, but I do think I need to clarify some things I said that have been misconstrued (to a point) as it relates to volume.

I do not equate volume with energy, in so far as making a "band has no energy if it isn't loud" kind of statement. What I mean by the use of volume as it relates to energy also needs to be put into context.

Anyone who has read my posts knows I play in a classic hard rock band. You will notice I often use AC/DC as a reference point. The reason for this is that while I love all kinds of rock music, AC/DC is the epitome of what I feel it means to be a rock band. If anyone has read any books or interviews of AC/DC, they'll know that they have an attitude with a singular purpose in mind. AC/DC has always been and continues to be about the straight-up power of rock music. Boring as the bass lines may appear to be to most bass players with any talent, there is a method to their madness. It's ALL about power and energy. Specifically it is about the power of a single note on bass or a single chord on guitar. It is ALL about space...the space between notes.

Now as that relates to "energy", what I love most about bass is the power of a single note. While playing frenetically fast melodic bass lines is a wonderful thing that has it's own energy, it is not where I am coming from. I do not understand the idea of bass players having to carry their sound out front on it's own without the aid of a PA. Bass out front without the drums also being equally out front is like having an engine with no transmission.

At the clubs we play, for the most part people are not coming to our shows to sit and have a few drinks over conversation. When we play there is this "pulse" happening. What I find to be beautiful about being a bass player in a hard rock band can be summed up in the synergy of a single note on my bass connecting with the hammer of the kick drum. It isn't about anything more than that for me. To know that every single note the drummer and I hit together creates this "pulse", this heartbeat, that for that singular moment binds all people in the room unavoidably together. Think of rhythmic tribal drumbeats that alone can put people in a meditative trance. This simple yet powerful force of bass and drums together is what the power of rock music is all about.

Now as it relates to volume...If we are trying to bring a room full of people together into a mass of singular purpose, how effective is it if the volume is such that people can hear it but do not feel it? How does one harness the power and energy of the collective group (the band and the crowd together) if people are focused on anything but this musical pulse? Volume. Now it need not be deafening, but it needs to grab the crowd's attention. It needs to be loud enough to provide an actual physical pulse to the room. It must be demanding in it's singular purpose of bringing people together as one mass of energy.

Studies have been done that prove we have an electric field around our hearts that goes outward about 6 feet. When a large group of people are in a room, all disjointed in purpose (getting drinks, having conversation, eating, watching sports on TV, etc.) the energy in the room is all over the place. This literal electric field is present in all, but disconnected. But once the band kicks in and cranks it up to a volume that creates this unavoidable pulse, this energy gets transformed into a unifying purpose. Everyone present is sucked into this vortex of music and it connects everyone together in this rhythmic harmony.

Watch what happens to the crowd as the volume goes up. Yes, some will not care for it, but overall the room of people becomes this mass of movement and unified energy where we are all feeding off each others energy. Even those that don't dance are unconsciously bobbing their head or tapping their foot.

So what I mean by having to be loud to create energy is not about the playing, it's about everyone feeling the pulse of the music, not simply hearing it like the band were a jukebox playing in the background while the crowd plays pool, shoots darts and laughs over jokes.

Rock music can be quite the powerful force...but not at low, polite volumes.

 

[Buster Brown]

+1 and a great big "Well Done!"

 

[warandhairstyle]

All of the cabs, and amps are listed in my sig.


Context: Stoner rock/doom. This is a style of music that is meant to be louder than everything else. For anyone unfamiliar, just think of Black Sabbath but slower, louder, and lower tuned. My band is just drums and bass, no vocals, no guitars. There are a couple reasons we choose to play so loud. Part of it is us being sick of how tame a lot of local heavy music has become. Heavy music has way more impact the louder it is and I don't see how anyone could deny that. It's not all about the volume though, but also the vibrations. It's important to us that everything be felt as much as heard. It's a major part of the whole relaxing/meditative aspect of this sort of music.

Never played a place where I needed any of my rig mic'd. My drummers drums are somehow louder than my rig, so most of the time he'll just tell sound guys to not even mic him. I've only been asked to turn down a couple times, which I never do. I'm not an a-hole about it, but I just say...look, this is the volume we always play at, and it's an important part of our live show for us, so no, I'm not turning down. It's never been a problem after that.

Soundguys will hate me when we start playing venues where there might be a reason to mic my rig, but I've made a stage plot to send to venues so at the very least it won't be such a surprise when we start setting up this wall of cabs. ha

I like the photo, the philosophy and the music. Handshakes all around.

 

[Buster Brown]

HEHE I love this!

True Story....

In 1980 a friend of mine in a "Christian" Rock band calls me up and asks if I can lend a hand for a job they had, no big deal...10 songs and off the stage..I had just returned from the road and said, Sure! Why Not!

It was an outdoor religious festival of one sort or the other (I dunno - a Christian Woodstock??) but anyway, I got to meet several of the larger National acts and one in particular stood out to me. They were called "Servant" and, if memory serves, were from the Pacific Northwest.

They began setting up their equipment and I was blown away by the sheer amount of gear that these cats had....and LOUD!!! Holey Moley were these guys loud!!

Anyway, the crowd (something like 15,000) starts getting into it and I couldn't help but laugh to myself...thinking..."If your Mom and Dad could see you guys now"..... It was pretty cool, though...

Hey...everyone likes to unwind...