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Jack Bruce has gone nuts!
- Thread starter Chopper
- Start date
- Aug 21, 2003
- 11,598
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intresing...
I have mixed feeling about what He saying...
He makes some good points but also comes off a little bitter though.
I have mixed feeling about what He saying...
He makes some good points but also comes off a little bitter though.
Yeah, I think that's what happens when you're standing up falling down drunk on stage being interviewed.
I hope for his sake he's not drinking too much these days. He is, after all, working on liver #2.
- Aug 21, 2008
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I don't think they suck, but popularity doesn't count for much, because try telling fans of someone like Britney Spears that she sucks!
Also what they play on the radio these days as "classic rock" wasn't really what they played on the radio back then. Not that they play crap now, but you didn't hear Pink Floyd every day back then either, and you certainly didn't hear STH. I always said the people that would vote STH as the number one song on these radio polls probably don't own a single Zep album! I'd pick Black Dog or Four Sticks over STH or Rock & Roll any day myself.
Back in the 70's a good rock station like WNEW-FM would play any random track off an album. There were no playlists. It was at the whim of the DJ. Now they pick what they think people want to hear to get higher ratings and advertiser dollars. And that has nothing to do with music.
They kill great classic bands by playing the crap over and over. Take a band like Queen. Do you want to hear We Will Rock You, or (shudder) Fat Bottom Girls, or something great like Brighton Rock or even Ogre Battle? Radio sucks these days.
Currently my favorite band is Deerhoof.
Pointless vamp? Jeeze dude, sorry there's not enough harmonic motion for ya but it is rock and roll. This on a thread that praises Cream, many of who's jams were over a I-IV-V blues, two chords or NO changes. Now because it was an ENORMOUS hit, I'm as tired of Stairway as the next guy but it is a good song. The solo is damn good. Jones and Bonham are rockin and even funking it up a bit and Page lays on a great guitar solo. As for lyrics, crap man, you can do that with any song. Not enough poignant social commentary for ya?
Now THAT's brilliant!!It's like guitar websites- don't criticize Zep or Stevie Ray.
Now here's a common comment I don't understand. Led Zepplin as great songwriters?!? Other than some nice riffs what songs are great? Certainly not that over-blown pointless drivel "Stairway to Heaven". It's a terrible song out of which they made a GREAT record. But the song doesn't stand alone from that particular performance and recording. Musically it's pretty lame except for the great bit of contrary motion in the acoustic guitar part. After that it descends into a pointless vamp. And the lyrics are awful. Plus it builds up to this great bombastic ending and all Plant could come up with to for that pseudo-majestic ending is "... to be a rock and not to roll"?? That makes John Anderson's lyrics seem coherent!
jte
I like Led Zep. But I can't help but agree here. Cream can still rock out like they used to. Zep is just a small shadow of what they used to be. Cream was more a proper musical band than Zep was. Zep was a little more showmanship, but that is part the business too. Both Clapton and Page were great, I've always thought, just in a different way.
Actually, I did mean Jon Anderson of Yes, not the US country singer...
And I WAS around in the '70s. That's a large part of why I find the LZ worship so unfathomable. I was there, and they didn't sound all that interesting. Page's guitar solos (except for the brilliant, short, swinging, and completley composed one on "Whole Lotta Love") don't have the daring of Jeff Beck, the passion of Clapton, the virtuosity of McLaughlin, nor the ear-catching combination of all those atributes that Hendrix often showed. The singing is annoying.
While Cream's jams were often over blues changes, they also had really good songs that hold up beyond the specific performances. "Sunshine of Your Love" is a great riff, not a great song, just like "Whole Lotta Love". However, "Badge", "White Room", "Tales of Brave Ulysses", "We're Going Wrong", and I Feel Free are well written song in my estimation. OK, so SWBLAR and Pressed Rat and Warthog dont stand up so well however
I don't think radio play is any indicator of whether the band is good or great, only that they're popular. And generally speaking, popular tastes in pop oriented music often has less to do with the music than the era, and people's memories (real or imagined) of it.
And I WAS around in the '70s. That's a large part of why I find the LZ worship so unfathomable. I was there, and they didn't sound all that interesting. Page's guitar solos (except for the brilliant, short, swinging, and completley composed one on "Whole Lotta Love") don't have the daring of Jeff Beck, the passion of Clapton, the virtuosity of McLaughlin, nor the ear-catching combination of all those atributes that Hendrix often showed. The singing is annoying.
While Cream's jams were often over blues changes, they also had really good songs that hold up beyond the specific performances. "Sunshine of Your Love" is a great riff, not a great song, just like "Whole Lotta Love". However, "Badge", "White Room", "Tales of Brave Ulysses", "We're Going Wrong", and I Feel Free are well written song in my estimation. OK, so SWBLAR and Pressed Rat and Warthog dont stand up so well however
I don't think radio play is any indicator of whether the band is good or great, only that they're popular. And generally speaking, popular tastes in pop oriented music often has less to do with the music than the era, and people's memories (real or imagined) of it.
All kidding aside, I think it's unfair to compare Clapton and Page. They're much different as musicians and personalities.
To me, Page was brilliant at playing whatever was necessary to make great records... he had a seemingly unlimited supply of riffs, tones, techniques, and an amazing imagination. In some ways, he was the ultimate George Harrison-style guitarist, if you know what I mean. I think he was more versatile than Clapton.
Clapton has always been a blues musician, and, as a sensitive and somewhat damaged (early family issues) person, he's used his craft to "exorcise personal demons", to use a tired cliche. When he's fully engaged in playing the blues, as on "Have You Heard" from the "Bluesbreakers" album, or "Have You Ever Loved a Woman" from "Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs", his intensity (as well as his total mastery of the vocabulary) is absolutely frightening. When NOT playing the blues, he's always displayed an unmatched command of form and shape... his solos seem predestined, or something. I'm thinking of "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" from the Beatles' "White Album", "In the Presence of the Lord" from "Blind Faith", "Badge" from "Goodbye", "Tales of Brave Ulysses" and "Dance the Night Away" from "Disraeli Gears", and many others. Even his solo on "Change the World" is a little gem, IMO.
Page is a master -- maybe *the* master -- at sounding huge, like Godzilla; Clapton kills you by playing *one* note or phrase in just the right place, with exactly the right touch and tone. Words like "eloquent", "elegant" and "graceful" always come to my mind when I listen to Clapton. If those qualities don't do it for you, you'll always prefer Page, which is fine. Nothing beats "Misty Mountain Hop" when I'm cruising down the highway at 2:00 AM, deaf, toasted, and coming home from a gig.
It all depends on your taste and what you look for in music (of course).
To me, Page was brilliant at playing whatever was necessary to make great records... he had a seemingly unlimited supply of riffs, tones, techniques, and an amazing imagination. In some ways, he was the ultimate George Harrison-style guitarist, if you know what I mean. I think he was more versatile than Clapton.
Clapton has always been a blues musician, and, as a sensitive and somewhat damaged (early family issues) person, he's used his craft to "exorcise personal demons", to use a tired cliche. When he's fully engaged in playing the blues, as on "Have You Heard" from the "Bluesbreakers" album, or "Have You Ever Loved a Woman" from "Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs", his intensity (as well as his total mastery of the vocabulary) is absolutely frightening. When NOT playing the blues, he's always displayed an unmatched command of form and shape... his solos seem predestined, or something. I'm thinking of "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" from the Beatles' "White Album", "In the Presence of the Lord" from "Blind Faith", "Badge" from "Goodbye", "Tales of Brave Ulysses" and "Dance the Night Away" from "Disraeli Gears", and many others. Even his solo on "Change the World" is a little gem, IMO.
Page is a master -- maybe *the* master -- at sounding huge, like Godzilla; Clapton kills you by playing *one* note or phrase in just the right place, with exactly the right touch and tone. Words like "eloquent", "elegant" and "graceful" always come to my mind when I listen to Clapton. If those qualities don't do it for you, you'll always prefer Page, which is fine. Nothing beats "Misty Mountain Hop" when I'm cruising down the highway at 2:00 AM, deaf, toasted, and coming home from a gig.
It all depends on your taste and what you look for in music (of course).
I think much of this discussion really misses the point. It just seems very unprofessional to slander another musical group in a setting like that. Doesn't really matter how good or bad LZ may or may not be. Music is so subjective anyway. I may have a very low opinion of, let's say, the Paris Hilton CD. But if I considered myself a professional musician such as Jack Bruce, I would never openly criticize another artist in such a manner in a public interview. Among close friends would be a different matter of course.
BTW - I very much admire Jack's playing ability, but his professional attitude leaves much to be desired.:scowl:
BTW - I very much admire Jack's playing ability, but his professional attitude leaves much to be desired.:scowl:
Actually, I did mean Jon Anderson of Yes, not the US country singer...
And I WAS around in the '70s. That's a large part of why I find the LZ worship so unfathomable. I was there, and they didn't sound all that interesting. Page's guitar solos (except for the brilliant, short, swinging, and completley composed one on "Whole Lotta Love") don't have the daring of Jeff Beck, the passion of Clapton, the virtuosity of McLaughlin, nor the ear-catching combination of all those atributes that Hendrix often showed. The singing is annoying.
While Cream's jams were often over blues changes, they also had really good songs that hold up beyond the specific performances. "Sunshine of Your Love" is a great riff, not a great song, just like "Whole Lotta Love". However, "Badge", "White Room", "Tales of Brave Ulysses", "We're Going Wrong", and I Feel Free are well written song in my estimation. OK, so SWBLAR and Pressed Rat and Warthog dont stand up so well however
I don't think radio play is any indicator of whether the band is good or great, only that they're popular. And generally speaking, popular tastes in pop oriented music often has less to do with the music than the era, and people's memories (real or imagined) of it.
I was there too and was similarly mystified by their popularity.
I was there, too. Ditto.
Why the success? I think they were louder than anyone else, had the pretty boy singer with the banshee voice and tight pants, and (as Jack said) everyone was hungry for a band to fill the Cream/Hendrix void. The '70s were a time when the breakthroughs of the '60s got filtered, refined and made to be easily digestible by a large audience of suburban kids. Hence, Zep.
Why the success? I think they were louder than anyone else, had the pretty boy singer with the banshee voice and tight pants, and (as Jack said) everyone was hungry for a band to fill the Cream/Hendrix void. The '70s were a time when the breakthroughs of the '60s got filtered, refined and made to be easily digestible by a large audience of suburban kids. Hence, Zep.
Wow, what a great, and well-written description of both Clapton and Page! As much as I don't get the hero-worship of Page, I do admire and respect him as a producer and a guitarist with a wonderful concept of getting great guitar sounds. I wonder what would have happened if he and Jeff Beck could get along. Or even if Jack Bruce, Page, Beck, and Bonzo had gotten together...
This is all silly. I'm a fan of both bands and both bass players. I'd bet Page, Plant and Jones would all have a good laugh over this.
BTW, Bruce gets the slight edge for me because he's had Vernon Reid on multiple albums and tours.
BTW, Bruce gets the slight edge for me because he's had Vernon Reid on multiple albums and tours.
Since we're kinda on the subject of Zeppelin (for you who appreciate them), I've always wondered about Page and Jones' musical relationship in that band.
it was unique and unusual in that you had Page the leader, mastermind and big-time guitarist and this amazing, deep talent in Jones in an interesting, more supporting role. Both Page and Jones always struck me as very intelligent in their relationship. To have someone of Jones' calibre in a supporting role added a rare quality to Zeppelin. With Jones, in addition to his great bass playing, Zeppelin had this huge reserve of input and know-how to pull out every now and again that put them in a different class.
Interestingly, Jones wrote many of Zeppelin's heavier (and notey) riffs - including Black Dog, Out On The Tiles and I believe Heartbreaker.
it was unique and unusual in that you had Page the leader, mastermind and big-time guitarist and this amazing, deep talent in Jones in an interesting, more supporting role. Both Page and Jones always struck me as very intelligent in their relationship. To have someone of Jones' calibre in a supporting role added a rare quality to Zeppelin. With Jones, in addition to his great bass playing, Zeppelin had this huge reserve of input and know-how to pull out every now and again that put them in a different class.
Interestingly, Jones wrote many of Zeppelin's heavier (and notey) riffs - including Black Dog, Out On The Tiles and I believe Heartbreaker.
Cream disbanded in 1969
From Wikipedia:
"Cream's "farewell tour" consisted of 22 shows at 19 venues in the United States between 4 October and 4 November 1968, and two final farewell concerts at the Royal Albert Hall on 26 November 1968."
