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Jaco

#41
Everyone seems to be opposed to my use of the word "sucks" to describe Jaco stating its somehow inflamatory and portrays more than just my opinion.

I did a quick search and there are over 500 posts on these message boards with the words "sucks" in it and as far as I can tell in every other case it was assumed to be an opinion until I used it to describe Jaco. Since I attached it to him it somehow transformed into a vile unusable word that transgresses all bounds of decency just because you don't agree with me.

If I had said "Behringer sucks" People would have argued about why it sucks or why it doesn't all stating their opinions about whats good and bad about the them, their products and their marketing.

Is that what happened in this context. No, I get a barrage of why he was good for music all of wich I agree with. I get a list of excuses about why he was great for electric bass none of wich are relevant to his sound.

There is a large set of "I must love Jaco" baggage your all trying to attach to bass players. Even going so far as implying you can't be a good bass player if you don't like him. Liking and enjoying his music is not mandatory to being a good musician or a good bass player.


-Rav
 
#42
prophecybass said:
No crosswiring here. You didn't answer my question above either. ;)

Most musicians I know have 'heard' of Jaco, and a large proportion of them have heard his music and / or have some of his music. It all depends on who you hang with .... using 'popularity' as measure of a musician's 'value' is pretty silly, IMHO.

Mike
Click to expand...


In order to answer your question I'll need to go find an example. I don't have any of the type of music I'm refering to and I'm not going to give examples unless I'm sure they are what I was talking about.

-Rav
 
#43
Rav, what you're really saying is that you dislike Jaco's playing (the sound of it, playing ability aside). Hey, that's all fine, it's your opinion!

But then why did you start the topic if all you were doing was stating your opinion? That'd be like if I started a thread entitled "The Beatles", and explained how I listened to one of their albums and thought it sucked.
 
#44
Rav said:
There is a large set of "I must love Jaco" baggage your all trying to attach to bass players. Even going so far as implying you can't be a good bass player if you don't like him. Liking and enjoying his music is not mandatory to being a good musician or a good bass player.
Click to expand...

I loved Jaco's music before I even played bass.

Without Jaco, we would still be using the E and A strings on our basses. :)
 
#45
Well, the first time I heard Jaco I was blown away. I wanted to be him in the worst way.

I got lucky, in that my first Jaco album was WP "heavy weather"..and the tracks "teen town" "havona" and "palladium" changed my world.

Prior to that, it was all about Geddy Lee and Chris Squire (still two of my favorites) but the prog rock guys only came close. they were never at the same level as Jaco.

However, having said that, I appreciate the guys that came after jaco a lot more, like Victor Bailey and Richard Bona.

The zawinul double live album has some intense bass work from those two guys!

I can somewhat relate to what the orignal poster said, because I really dig Donald Duck Dunn, and he ain't no Jaco..but his bass playing is very, very satisfying to me.

Jimmy Vaughn, the blues/roots guitarist, is almost primitive compared to his brother, Stevie Ray, but darn!

I like Jimmy Vaughn better!

However, you really cannot legally use the words "sucks" and "jaco" in the same sentence, because it is a scientific fact that Jaco was one of the most, if not THE most innovative and forward thinking bass player of his time. I still prefer Rocco Prestia, but there is no denying that Jaco changed everything!

RIP Jaco!!

Now that I am at it, here is an off-topic question: why didn't the family, friends and associated of Jaco force him into a mental institution?

I am sure they could have gotten some doctor to declare him insane and had him comitted. IMHO, these people let him down. At least. they could have done and "intervention" or drugged him to sleep and then transported him to a lock down facility.
 
#46
Jaco was comitted to Bellview's mental ward, but I guess they could only hold somebody for a certain amount of time.
Jaco was actually making progress until his last relapse :(
 
#47
prophecybass said:
... using 'popularity' as measure of a musician's 'value' is pretty silly, IMHO.
Click to expand...

Using that rationale puts the American Idol winners/losers/poseurs at the top of the 'value' heap...
There is a reason why Liberace is more popular than Cecil Taylor, Kenny G. more popular than Chris Potter, Lawrence Welk more popular than Duke Ellington, etc.

Buehler?
 
#48
lucas vigor said:
Now that I am at it, here is an off-topic question: why didn't the family, friends and associated of Jaco force him into a mental institution?

I am sure they could have gotten some doctor to declare him insane and had him comitted. IMHO, these people let him down. At least. they could have done and "intervention" or drugged him to sleep and then transported him to a lock down facility.
Click to expand...

Speaking from experience - there's a limit to what people can do to 'force' others they care for into a better situation. If the itended recipient doesn't want that 'care', there's not too much (long term) family and friends can do. And all it takes is one 'slip' and the 'patient' can fall into a bad situation very, very quickly. Maybe today 'better' help would have been available ... or maybe not.

RIP Jaco.

Mike
 
#50
I like Jaco. Everyone else doesn't have to.


Controversial, huh?

I agree "suck" was a poor choice of words and I can't say I see the point in starting a thread about someone I don't like. Given that, why would anyone be upset at what the thread starter said? He doesn't like what he's heard of Jaco... BFD. Some of this stuff is downright funny, like saying give Jaco another try while talking about bassists you don't care for in the same breath. Shouldn't you give them more tries too... until you do appreciate them?

:hiding:

Jaco neither was nor is loved by all. That's just silly. He's a very important piece of this musical puzzle for people who find him to be just that.

One man's virtuoso could just as easily be another's wanker. And they're both right;)

Back to the festivities...
 
#54
Rav -- It might be useful if you provided some info as to bassists / CDs that you do like. One of the real appeals of Jaco is that he covered such an enormous range of material. For example, if you find the "Jaco" CD too esoteric, I'd recommend taking a listen to "Live in Italy" or Weather Report's "8:30." You can listed to some samples from a lot of his CD's here:

Invalid Link Removed

Or you can watch a pretty cool video of WR doing Jaco's "Teen Town" here (click on the name "Jaco Pastorius" in the middle of the page to launch the video):

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#56
RunngDog said:
Rav -- It might be useful if you provided some info as to bassists / CDs that you do like. One of the real appeals of Jaco is that he covered such an enormous range of material. For example, if you find the "Jaco" CD too esoteric, I'd recommend taking a listen to "Live in Italy" or Weather Report's "8:30." You can listed to some samples from a lot of his CD's here:

Invalid Link Removed

Or you can watch a pretty cool video of WR doing Jaco's "Teen Town" here (click on the name "Jaco Pastorius" in the middle of the page to launch the video):

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Click to expand...

Does it really matter what he likes? Do you really care?

Not trying to be funny... it's an honest question.

This whole thing reminds me of me telling someone I don't like liver...


and they tell me I just haven't had it prepared right yet.


:hmm:
 
#58
the funny thing is, among music circles i play in "he's a jaco type"can be the kiss of death for a bassist.typicaly it means a guy who over play's or doesn't groove,witch is ironic being that while jaco didn't underplay you didn't hear him over play and he had a great groove.by today's standards jaco's style is not impossiple to understand because it's part of standard bass guitar playing but at the time it hite alot of guy hard.
 
#59
I agree that a lot of people see jaco as synonymous with "overplaying" - but that's really because there are so many Jaco "wannabees" out there, who have no taste or sensitivity - I've met many of them at Jazz jams!! ;)

Whereas Jaco himself, was always listening (when in full health) and playing what was good for the music - in fact he lays out quite a lot and doesn't play at all - which is something a lot of Jazz DB players never do!!

So - take "A Remark You Made" as a well-known example - how many bass players would leave the huge gaps that Jaco does, without playing anything - this then makes much more of an impression, when he does play and adds to the overall feeling of the tune.
 
#60
Brad Johnson said:
Does it really matter what he likes? Do you really care?

Not trying to be funny... it's an honest question.

This whole thing reminds me of me telling someone I don't like liver...


and they tell me I just haven't had it prepared right yet.


:hmm:
Click to expand...


Well I think it's symptomatic of a trend that is very annoying ariound here - so somebody downloads a few tracks of something and then dismisses a whole body of work outright! :hmm:

It shows a lack of thought, lack of patience, lack of being able to listen properly - the kind of qualities that are essential for being a good musician - and then to pick on one of the seminal influences of most electric bass players and shout about it on their board....

What does that say about a person....?

Troll...?

"My god it sucks.

Let me clarify. Its technically pretty over the top hard. I agree he was a master of his particular play style.

Its just about as interesting to listen to as crickets mating. "

This is just so missing the point about Jaco - that's why people have responded - and to me that was what was wanted -

"Give me attention - look I'm trashing your hero!!"

To me it's sad or pathetic - but pretty typical, attention-seeking behaviour....:(
 

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