Jaco

[Brad Johnson]

What's really sad is that it still gets a rise out of people.

 

[Brad Johnson]

No, I think its more like you telling someone you don't like meat (or more specifically, "meat really sucks") because you tried liver once and didn't like it.

... and then that person becomes agitated because you said it... as if it matters to them what you like?





Anyway...


I could easily see someone coming to that conclusion about eating flesh. I can just as easily see others telling them they need to try eating other animal parts... 'til they see the light.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

What's really sad is that it still gets a rise out of people.

I see it as exactly the other way round - so it is sad that people can be so dismissive about a great talent, it is sad that people need to grab attention by putting others down.

Conversely, I see it as very encouraging that after all these years, so many people are still prepared to stick up for Jaco and what he achieved, despite his great difficulties and suffering with a condition that could be treated easily nowadays but was severely misunderstood then.

I am happy for his family, that most people still remember him for the positive things and not for his unfortunate and violent end!

 

[dlloyd]

My god it sucks.

What sort of stuff do you usually listen to?

For what it's worth, I'm not much of a fan either. I got a lot out of studying that album, but I don't listen to it for pleasure. Nor can I listen to much of his output with Weather Report. I just don't like the music.

Now the stuff he did with Joni Mitchell is something else...

 

[RunngDog]

I could easily see someone coming to that conclusion about eating flesh. I can just as easily see others telling them they need to try eating other animal parts... 'til they see the light.

Well, Brad, I think we've probably driven the meat analogy pretty well into the ground at this point.

Sure, in the end it doesn't really matter to me whether or not Rav likes Jaco's music. But then again, lots of TB threads cover lots of things that don't really matter to me. Do I really care whether someone buys a Zon or a Roscoe? Does it matter to me that someone's new Sadowsky just arrived?

It would be easy enough to dismiss Rav's original post as trolling, but despite the ill-advised use of the word "sucks,"I think he has taken some pains to explain what exactly he didn't like about the one CD he's listened to. Fair enough. The fact is, that particular CD doesn't spend a lot of time in my CD player either. It's got some great playing, a lot of brilliance, but it really isn't a lot of fun. On the other hand, "8:30" and "Live in Italy" are a lot of fun -- great grooves, easy to listen to lightly for just the pleasure or more closely to appreciate the incredible playing. And if Rav is really interested in "getting" Jaco rather than just dismissing him, then he should take a listen to these. And if he still doesn't get it -- well, there's no accounting for taste.

But of course, in the end, it doesn't really matter.

 

[mat gregory]

overly technical??

" a remark you made" and "continuum" and "god must be a boogie man" arnt in the slightest bit over technical them 3 tracks IMO contain the most beautiful bass playing ive ever heard.

 

[willgroove2]

it's funny when i read mags like bass player ect when they interview guy's and they say"im not a techinical player" i always think the same thing;can't play very well.sometimes im wrong but most often im right IMO.there are a bunch of guy's in band's who are successful for a moment who can barely play but because their on mtv get far more notice than jaco,jeff berlin,gary willis ect put together,so therfore player who don't know anything go;this is what i should be like,this guy dosn't know the name of the notes and he's famous so why should i learn anything.i get this from new students all the time when they get challenged

 

[battousai]

Exactly what I've been thinking. That's why I don't subscribe to Bass Player anymore. Most every player says the same thing, "less is more", "I'm not flashy" blah blah.

 

[dlloyd]

it's funny when i read mags like bass player ect when they interview guy's and they say"im not a techinical player" i always think the same thing;can't play very well.sometimes im wrong but most often im right IMO.there are a bunch of guy's in band's who are successful for a moment who can barely play but because their on mtv get far more notice than jaco,jeff berlin,gary willis ect put together,so therfore player who don't know anything go;this is what i should be like,this guy dosn't know the name of the notes and he's famous so why should i learn anything.i get this from new students all the time when they get challenged

Do you think kids would like Jaco and Jeff Berlin if they were on MTV?

 

[JimK]

Does it really matter what he likes? Do you really care?

Not trying to be funny... it's an honest question.

This is Talk Bass...afteralll.

 

[JimK]

But then again, lots of TB threads cover lots of things that don't really matter to me. Do I really care whether someone buys a Zon or a Roscoe? Does it matter to me that someone's new Sadowsky just arrived?

I'm 100% with you on this.
I still can't believe I posted in the "Strings" Forum the other night...musta been a slow night.

 

[geoffkhan]

But then again, lots of TB threads cover lots of things that don't really matter to me. Do I really care whether someone buys a Zon or a Roscoe? Does it matter to me that someone's new Sadowsky just arrived?

Personally, when people post about their new bass, etc., I don't really care THAT much, either. I mean, I'll read the thread just to hear people's comments on the bass, or see pictures, but it won't really matter to me unless I actually know the person.

It would be easy enough to dismiss Rav's original post as trolling, but despite the ill-advised use of the word "sucks,"I think he has taken some pains to explain what exactly he didn't like about the one CD he's listened to. Fair enough. The fact is, that particular CD doesn't spend a lot of time in my CD player either. It's got some great playing, a lot of brilliance, but it really isn't a lot of fun. On the other hand, "8:30" and "Live in Italy" are a lot of fun -- great grooves, easy to listen to lightly for just the pleasure or more closely to appreciate the incredible playing. And if Rav is really interested in "getting" Jaco rather than just dismissing him, then he should take a listen to these. And if he still doesn't get it -- well, there's no accounting for taste.

+1

 

[Brad Johnson]

I see it as exactly the other way round - so it is sad that people can be so dismissive about a great talent, it is sad that people need to grab attention by putting others down.

Too easy. Let's just say that Rav is hardly the only TBer who's put people down, as it were.

Ask yourself this... do you like everything? Have you spoken negatively about anything you didn't like (that others did like)?

Conversely, I see it as very encouraging that after all these years, so many people are still prepared to stick up for Jaco and what he achieved, despite his great difficulties and suffering with a condition that could be treated easily nowadays but was severely misunderstood then.

Music should stand on it's own, shouldn't it? Obviously it doesn't but why does the background have to play into someone deciding to like something?

I don't like liver. Three guys named Jack and that gimp who's never here could stick up for it til the cowsz come home. They could go on and on about the great protein source or the fact that it cleared up their collective acne instantaneously... and it wouldn't change the fact that I don't like liver.

Rav may never "get" Jaco... and that SHOULD be okay with the people who worship him as a personal bass god... but it obviously isn't.

Why?



Most of this thread comes off as presumptuous... people trying to sway this person's opinion and for what reason? So they'll all be on the same page?

I am happy for his family, that most people still remember him for the positive things and not for his unfortunate and violent end!

Why did you bring up his end?

Anyhoo...

why can't people just allow others to like what they like? I like Ornette Coleman but I'm not going to browbeat people into listening to several recordings in the hope that they'll be of the same opinion as me.

Brad, champion of OC mode on:

"Do you get it now? Just listen... it's frickin' HARMOLODIC!!! What are you, deaf? Grrr!"

If I had to resort to that I'd just find another hobby.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Well, Brad, I think we've probably driven the meat analogy pretty well into the ground at this point.

Sure, in the end it doesn't really matter to me whether or not Rav likes Jaco's music. But then again, lots of TB threads cover lots of things that don't really matter to me. Do I really care whether someone buys a Zon or a Roscoe? Does it matter to me that someone's new Sadowsky just arrived?

It would be easy enough to dismiss Rav's original post as trolling, but despite the ill-advised use of the word "sucks,"I think he has taken some pains to explain what exactly he didn't like about the one CD he's listened to. Fair enough. The fact is, that particular CD doesn't spend a lot of time in my CD player either. It's got some great playing, a lot of brilliance, but it really isn't a lot of fun. On the other hand, "8:30" and "Live in Italy" are a lot of fun -- great grooves, easy to listen to lightly for just the pleasure or more closely to appreciate the incredible playing. And if Rav is really interested in "getting" Jaco rather than just dismissing him, then he should take a listen to these. And if he still doesn't get it -- well, there's no accounting for taste.

But of course, in the end, it doesn't really matter.

I didn't dismiss his post, if that wsas your point. I said he has every right not to like or appreciate whatever Jaco brought to the table.

Know why Liberace had such a successful career? Because people liked him. There were others who didn't.

 

[Brad Johnson]

This is Talk Bass...afteralll.

And I'm not saying people shouldn't talk. I'm actually asking someone to tell me why someone else's dislike of a particular musician's performance would upset them? I'd love for them to talk about that if they cared to.

 

[willgroove2]

Do you think kids would like Jaco and Jeff Berlin if they were on MTV?

two thoughts on that question;when i became more active on the song writing/production side of the music biz i had a number of conversations with,for want of a better word, "suits".one of the thing that was told to me over and over was that "we are trying to apeal to the lowest commen denomenater (sp)we are not trying to make art we are trying to make money"so therefore people are not given the chance to decide for themself because it's not promoted to them.my other thought is one i have said for years;if you played jazz or fusion as much and presented it the same way(video's,mag's,radio airplay)the numbers would make a major jump,remember jaco had a gold record with weather report in the '70s and artist such as diana krall and norah jones sell very well to this day although they are coming from a different school of jazz.people in general are able to understand and enjoy jazz in all it's different form's but because it's been ghettoized they don't hear it.play jaco as much as you play U2 on mtv and some kids(not all) will dig it IMO

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

And I'm not saying people shouldn't talk. I'm actually asking someone to tell me why someone else's dislike of a particular musician's performance would upset them? I'd love for them to talk about that if they cared to.

Exactly - it's Talkbass, you can say shut up about it - but then there would be no forum!!

I don't see that most people who have replied are upset - they are just saying that the original poster is missing out on something good by dismmissing Jaco on a (self-admitted) cursory listening!

So - most people have been suggesting what Jaco tracks or abums to listen to, that might be easier to get into.

This is a bass site and Jaco's music has a lot to teach bass players about what you can do,what's possible.... I think people are just pointing this out, as a way of helping others not to miss out on a great resource for becoming better bass players.

I'm not upset that the original poster misses out- but if I can help somebody else appreciate Jaco's music and not be put off by one negative response - then I will - no matter what you say!!

 

[Marlat]

To an extent, I kinda agree with Bruce on this one When I first heard about Jaco and then bought a CD I was definately like "whats all the fuss about?" - I wasn't into jazz at all, but I knew that so many people could not be wrong. So I stuck with it and would come back and listen to the Jaco CD maybe once or twice a month just to see if something would leap out at me. I don't know when it happened but one day it just clicked, it wasn't overplaying, it was just bloody brilliant. I think, like Bruce said, where there are lessons to be learned, sometimes its worth persevering past the initial reaction to find those lessons.

 

[dlloyd]

two thoughts on that question;when i became more active on the song writing/production side of the music biz i had a number of conversations with,for want of a better word, "suits".one of the thing that was told to me over and over was that "we are trying to apeal to the lowest commen denomenater (sp)we are not trying to make art we are trying to make money"so therefore people are not given the chance to decide for themself because it's not promoted to them.

Well it's a cynical view*. Of course money is the motivating factor behind most decisions in the music business. It always has been, always will be. And while the biggest music companies sell music that has the widest possible appeal (and therefore profit... that's why they're the biggest companies), there are smaller companies that recognise there is an audience, albeit smaller (and less profitable... that's why they're smaller companies) for the more intellectualised "art" music.

Businessmen in the music industry aren't stupid. They promote music that the consumer wants. They know that most record buyers want to buy music that doesn't require much thought, that you can put on at a party and dance to... that's the lowest common denominator, and it's not a bad thing. Nobody ever got lucky by sticking on Ornette Coleman's Shapes of Jazz to Come at a party.

my other thought is one i have said for years;if you played jazz or fusion as much and presented it the same way(video's,mag's,radio airplay)the numbers would make a major jump,remember jaco had a gold record with weather report in the '70s and artist such as diana krall and norah jones sell very well to this day although they are coming from a different school of jazz.people in general are able to understand and enjoy jazz in all it's different form's but because it's been ghettoized they don't hear it.play jaco as much as you play U2 on mtv and some kids(not all) will dig it IMO

Perhaps. It's unlikely to be a very large section of the audience. I remember watching a TV interview with Frank Zappa some years ago when he talked about his early taste in music. This was not a kid who was influenced by MTV, he was open minded enough to listen to heavy stuff like Varese and other avant guard 20th century composers. He didn't like jazz because "it sounded like noodling". And that's what jazz and instrumental rock is to most people. They don't want to be impressed by technical virtuosity or musical sophistication. They want to listen to music to relax and have a good time.

I get the impression, reading these boards, that a lot of participants equate simplicity with a lack of musical worth. I really don't understand this. After studying Jazz for a decade or so, I understand it and can appreciate it. I can just about get away with playing it too. But I still get more inspired by listening to The Pixies or The Cure, bands who inspired me as a teenager in the 80s.

* Edit On the part of the "suits"

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Music should stand on it's own, shouldn't it? Obviously it doesn't but why does the background have to play into someone deciding to like something?

Why did you bring up his end?

Well it was in response to your saying that :

"What's really sad is that it still gets a rise out of people."

So I am saying that "sad" was not the appropriate word there and that if you want what's really sad - then you only have to look at Jaco's problems in life and his unfortunate end - that's really sad, to me.