Jazz Audition reject

[251]

I have been playing for about 13 years and have real good technique and improv skill, not the best but better than average. I can basicaly play anything as long as someone sings hums or plays it on a piano. I auditioned for this jazz band and was rejected. I have been wanting to learn how to read music but havent, and dont even know where some of the notes are on the bass. I know how important it is to be able to read when playing in a jazz band, but would you reject that musician even though they are not limited to what they can play with their technique? Jazz players... any other hints or tips on how i can prevent from being rejected at another audition ? thanks guys

You say 'Jazz Band' I assume the audition offered chord charts or Real Book type charts. For a Jazz Orchestra, I expect to be handed a chart to read, note for note. You don't say much about your playing so, apologies in advance if some of the following does not apply.

For Jazz players, whether you can swing on bass is the foundation. To do that, you need to play full value on quarter notes. If you were playing uneven value or playing staccato, it would have killed the swing feel. Only you know if that was a factor.

Jazz players also expect to hear basslines that vary; from arpeggio to chromatic to |R|V| to ...<insert your favorite pattern here>... Interaction with the other rhythm players, adjustments to playing volume to suit the moment + more are also expected. The music has a rich complexity & musical language that is different (not better, just different) from other genres.

FWIW, I have been playing about as long as you, mostly Jazz & keep getting rejected at rock auditions. I just don't know enough music well enough, yet.

If you're not already listening to jazz, this is the time to start. I suggest a copy of Jerry Coker's Listening to Jazz + the Smithsonian Jazz collection (8 disk set) which he references often. You might also want to listen to The Blue Box collection from Blue Note. Is there a music school nearby? Do they run Jazz Ensemble Classes? You can learn a lot in an Ensemble in a year.

Hope that helps.

 

[elgecko]

It surprised me that no one took the position that it is not necessary to read to play jazz. I play with an awesome piano player every weekend. He sounds like a recording artist but can't read his way out of a paper bag. The trick is, he knows several hundred tunes that he learned from records. Remember, jazz was a folk music before it was accepted in academia.

I too know a great piano player that can't read but the times we've used him and played songs he didn't know, it was a lot of extra work on our part. Unfortunately, that puts him at the bottom of the call list since there are any number of reading piano players we'll call before him.

I wish my ears were better. I get overly dependent on reading and thinking through scales and chords. I'm trying to get past all that and just play by ear.

Are you really "playing by ear" if you already have a solid grasp on scales and chords? Or are you just subconsciously drawing on your now sublimated knowledge of scales and chords?

 

[elgecko]

You don't even have to memorize the coupla hundred of standards.

Whatever happened to playing from a chord chart?

Playing from a chord chart works like a charm but requires:

1) knowing what notes make up a particular chord and

2) identifying those notes on the fretboard...d'oh!

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Yes there's a lot to learn if you want to play Jazz and as somebody who made the transition from rock/pop to Jazz I can tell you it comes as a bit of a shock how much you are expected to know and do!

So - for a start, you can't rely on the drummer to keep the beat - they may decide to drop out - and everybody is looking to you as bass player to outline the chords and signpost where the changes occur - you are under a lot more pressure and need to be completely solid, rhythmically and harmonically - you can't just wing it and hope....

You have to keep the form - unless it's Free Jazz - and there will be things like trading 8s, 4s etc. You could also be expected to play the head in unison with the rest of the band or play "hits" depending on the chart and you have to be able to read a chart at the drop of a hat - or rather as the tune is counted off!!

Lastly - you will probably be expected to improvise extensively and know what is happening when you are given cues to changes - plus you may be asked to play your own improvised solo - where often everybody else drops out and you still have to keep the form!!

 

[cnltb]

A possible first step ... Know where all the notes are on your fingerboard.
Basic but most important.

 

[Fajah]

I can basicaly play anything as long as someone sings hums or plays it on a piano.

Nothing wrong with having a good ear. This is a good thing and will serve you well in any musical situation. However, it has it's limitations if you're just relying on it.....regardless of the musical genre.

I auditioned for this jazz band and was rejected. I have been wanting to learn how to read music but havent, and dont even know where some of the notes are on the bass.

Not surprising that you didn't pass the audition. If you want to pursue this direction, you'll need to acquire some skills that not only pertain to jazz, but music in general. You should pick it up fairly quickly since you have a good ear and can already play.

I know how important it is to be able to read when playing in a jazz band, but would you reject that musician even though they are not limited to what they can play with their technique?

As others have mentioned, learning to read is a necessary skill for orchestras, both classical and jazz. Reading is secondary if you're playing off typical jazz charts. In this case, understanding theory and harmony are what's most important. In fact, you will rarely see a bass clef on a jazz chart so if you're going to learn how to read, learn the treble clef as well.

So yes....if I was auditioning a bass player (or any other musician for that matter) for a "traditional" jazz group, and the player couldn't read a chart and understand what's going on, they would be rejected regardless of their "chops".

On another note (sorry for the pun).... it wouldn't hurt to start listening to jazz and some of the typical sub-genres like bossa, bebop, swing, modal, etc. You'll begin to notice that there are some basic underlying patterns within each of them that would be good to know. Learning the theory will tell you what they are.

 

[Freddels]

Also, get a few Aebersold play alongs. Start with a easier ones (you can't go by the volume number for difficulty rating though).

 

[interp]

You've been playing for 13 years and don't know where all the notes are on your bass!?

Don't mean to be harsh, but that's half your problem.

Learn scales, modes, harmonic structure, the spelling of every chord you can find (jazz and otherwise). And learn to read, at least chord charts.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

So yes....if I was auditioning a bass player (or any other musician for that matter) for a "traditional" jazz group, and the player couldn't read a chart and understand what's going on, they would be rejected regardless of their "chops".

I think you're right - but would go further and say that there would be a bias against somebody who was trying to show off that they had chops!

So - I think in straight ahead Jazz, most bands would prefer a player who can swing and play good walking bass lines, over somebody who was trying to show off...?

 

[TheBasicBassist]

Learn to read charts and swing like hell.

 

[Fajah]

- but would go further and say that there would be a bias against somebody who was trying to show off that they had chops!

Absolutely. In fact, I recently learned that bassists "overplaying" at auditions is one of the more common faults. I was told this by a very respectable Canadian musician whose band I recently auditioned for. It wasn't jazz, but one could draw an analogy to any type of music (with the exception of classical).

So - I think in straight ahead Jazz, most bands would prefer a player who can swing and play good walking bass lines, over somebody who was trying to show off...?

In principal...yes, but with the understanding that playing jazz bass is not just walking bass lines.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Yes agreed - but if you can't do this - then most straight-ahead Jazz groups won't want you. Although of course you might end up playing a lot of 2-feel tunes or straight 8s in practice. What it won't be is a bass solo project a la Jaco!!

 

[Don Sibley]

So what kind of "jazz group" was this Jacohead? (small combo, big band, standards, originals?)

 

[Phil Smith]

I have been playing for about 13 years and have real good technique and improv skill, not the best but better than average. I can basicaly play anything as long as someone sings hums or plays it on a piano. I auditioned for this jazz band and was rejected. I have been wanting to learn how to read music but havent, and dont even know where some of the notes are on the bass. I know how important it is to be able to read when playing in a jazz band, but would you reject that musician even though they are not limited to what they can play with their technique? Jazz players... any other hints or tips on how i can prevent from being rejected at another audition ? thanks guys

I would reject you if you couldn't read notes and/or interpret a chord chart because you need to be able to do those things to function in that particular group and the bass plays a pretty important role, there's no hiding.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Jacohead, welcome to the real world. You and I are similar. I am largely self-taught, with some significant holes in my musical knowledge. I can function very easily playing pop or funk, but doing jazz takes a much higher skill set. Heck, playing pop seriously with other skilled musicians takes a skill set I don't yet have. Get a teacher and study. You don't have to be great to be a technically skilled musician, you just have to put in the time it takes to get up to speed.

I recently started lessons again after thirty-two years. It's rough finding practice time, but I can see progress already.

 

[rdmjazz]

Unless you went in and kicked the crap out of the audition at such a level where I didn't care if you could read (and there are very few players that are that good, particularly in jazz). It may be a hard pill to swallow, but maybe your "technique" is not as good as you think.
Not even knowing where the notes on the bass are also shows a lack of dedication to the instrument and music. Nobody wants to have to hum you your parts, not when they have put in the time on their instrument and learning music. Just put in the time and learn it, it will enable you to communicate with other musicians. There is way more to music than just playing by ear and having technique. Sounds like you have a good start, but you have some more work to do in other areas.

 

[azureblue]

it's because the player can't swing or lay back, much less play a simple jazz shuffle blues.

 

[fdeck]

Yes agreed - but if you can't do this - then most straight-ahead Jazz groups won't want you. Although of course you might end up playing a lot of 2-feel tunes or straight 8s in practice. What it won't be is a bass solo project a la Jaco!!

What I've experienced is that jazz groups value both: Tasteful and appropriate comping, and good soloing. Especially in smaller groups, a bassist who can solo, adds some variety and helps take the load off the other players.

 

[queevil]

Hmmm... jazz. So free and so snobby all at the same time. I dig it.

 

[SBassman]

Has been an interesting thread.

Reading or not, your next steps probably should involve learning
the notes of the fretboard and doing some work on creating basslines from a chord chart. After that, you'll have to decide if you need to invest the time in full reading.

Ya gotta learn some of the fretboard.