Jeff Berlin Discussing Music Ed Part II

[Fergie Fulton]

Because you don't agree Jeff is wrong?

No because it is wrong.

The only players who may protest this statement are the guys that are represented by this comment.

Since i don't represent that comment and by virtue of my protest it is then wrong

Sometimes it is so easy to find out who falls into the categories that I speak of. They are the ones who protest immediately.

I protested immediatly, i do not fall into the category so wrong again.

My suggestion is to not be offended. Just improve on your instrument in musical ways and stop being limited to the simplest, most tonaly non-eventful musical style in music, if this is your wish.

If you do not wish to offend then really these stupid opinions should be keept to oneselve. Already comments have been deleted because of it. Jeff seeks to offend, then when the reaction comes thank moderators for cleaning up his mess. Moderators should not have to do this but comments like Jeffs will always see them have to clean up threads.

The other implication is that most other forms are bad and there player need to be saved from its bad ways and influences. That is conceited in its assumtion that player in these genres need saving. Says who?

Then we have this, quoted about me so i take it that it refers to me. So now i am stupid. I do not complain anything but, Jeff says i complain, all i do is point out the mistakes.
I have to assume that because Jeff has me blocked and will not talk in an open, direct manner with me,that he uses others to try and make a point against me quoting Michael Cases quote of me as previously in this thread.

There is a joke that goes like this: A not-so-smart crook steals a woman’s purse and is promptly arrested. They put the guy in a line up. When the woman enters the room to point out the crook, the dumb guy steps forward, points his finger at the woman and says, “That’s her!”

I may identify a group, but some are always first to identify tehmselve as a part of the general group that I identified. The more that these and others like these complain about my comments, the more that I know that I have hit a nerve! This wasn't my intention, but, some guys can't stop from identifying themselves and with such ease.

No raw nerve here, i also seem to recall Jeff saying something about "he who yelps loudest, or "he who protests most". It seems to me Jeff does most of the yelping and protesting...mainly about things that are not really his business.
I always write and post in good humour so no worries from my end, i see worth in all music and all music education so no worries from me.

 

[engedi1]

There is a joke that goes like this: A not-so-smart crook steals a woman’s purse and is promptly arrested. They put the guy in a line up. When the woman enters the room to point out the crook, the dumb guy steps forward, points his finger at the woman and says, “That’s her!”

.

HAH! Love it!

 

[Billnc]

Certainly the piano is a necessary instrument to accopmany one's main instrumental choice.

Ouch! I bought a good keyboard in 2001 and practiced a bit every day until a year and a half ago. I sold it to dedicate my energies to bass! An archtop and Polytone lurk in the corner though.

Oh and after Noodles Ramen and an egg for breakfast, Noodles Ramen and a spoon of sauce for lunch and noodles ramen and Veg all for dinner for a couple years eck!

 

[JeffBerlin]

Ouch! I bought a good keyboard in 2001 and practiced a bit every day until a year and a half ago. I sold it to dedicate my energies to bass! An archtop and Polytone lurk in the corner though.

Oh and after Noodles Ramen and an egg for breakfast, Noodles Ramen and a spoon of sauce for lunch and noodles ramen and Veg all for dinner for a couple years eck!

Go for the notes, the harmony, the meaningful music that will give you so much of what it is that you wish to have.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Originally Posted by JeffBerlin
There is a joke that goes like this: A not-so-smart crook steals a woman’s purse and is promptly arrested. They put the guy in a line up. When the woman enters the room to point out the crook, the dumb guy steps forward, points his finger at the woman and says, “That’s her!”

HAH! Love it!

Exactly! Funny how this joke applies. And it will, every time!

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

To Fergie: if you disagree, with Jeff so much, just don't come into this thread. It's obvious you want to pointlessly argue (seeing as you still don't get what he's saying), and nobody wants that in here. Not trying to start an argument, just saying...

To Jeff: I am probably going to get a lesson from one of the more well-known jazz bassists in the area pretty soon, so I figure that the only way to get the most out of the lesson will be to know my chords in all keys. So...

I have been writing out those chord tone exercises from your article in Bass Player, doing this in the circle of fourths. It's really been getting me away from "patterns" and more toward actually getting a grasp of harmony.

My question is this: do you suggest going through all 12 listed chord types, all 6 exercises, one key a day, or maybe taking one exercise and go through it with most of the chord types (I'm limited on practice time because of my schedule this semester), all keys every day?

I ask this because I know that you very often say to grab a figure and learn it in all 12 keys.

If you don't remember the article/exercises I could describe them to you.

Thank you!

 

[Fergie Fulton]

To Fergie: if you disagree, with Jeff so much, just don't come into this thread. It's obvious you want to pointlessly argue (seeing as you still don't get what he's saying), and nobody wants that in here. Not trying to start an argument, just saying...

My friend i agree with Jeff on 98% of musical things, so there are no arguments from me on that point. ( check anything i have ever posted, you will find nothing much of disagrement on musical things)

As for starting and argument... since i react to comments that are childish in there thoughts and concept consider my side as scolding a child that is doing stupid things.
This thread was supposed to be about musical things, it has degenerated into the views on all things by Chairman Jeff. LOL
Lets keep in on the subject of music and learning and it will remain a great thread.
(sorry for being passive aggressive)

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

My friend i agree with Jeff on 98% of musical things, so there are no arguments from me on that point. ( check anything i have ever posted, you will find nothing much of disagrement on musical things)

As for starting and argument... since i react to comments that are childish in there thoughts and concept consider my side as scolding a child that is doing stupid things.
This thread was supposed to be about musical things, it has degenerated into the views on all things by Chairman Jeff. LOL
Lets keep in on the subject of music and learning and it will remain a great thread.
(sorry for being passive aggressive)

Ok. Maybe I'm mistaking you for someone else.

Let's move it along.

 

[chadhargis]

Good thread. The more I read it, the more I realize I have so much to learn. Heck, I have no idea what most of you are talking about.

If I could play the blues, I'd skippy well play it, and play it as much as I could. But I don't think I'd want to stop there. I'd want to expand on my playing ability. I hope I never stop learning.

Right now, I just want to play SOMETHING, ANYTHING.

 

[gai113]

Humility mr berlin, thats my advice for you..

Not just in music but Life....

thats the biggest diff between you and victor

Peace be with you

 

[Mastermold]

Humility mr berlin, thats my advice for you..

Not just in music but Life....

thats the biggest diff between you and victor

Peace be with you

I don't see anything necessarily wrong with what he said. But it does seem what Jeff has in mind as blues perhaps isn't what I have in mind, and perhaps a few others. There's bad blues and good blues IMO, and the later isn't for lightweights.

 

[Eminentbass]

I don't see anything necessarily wrong with what he said. But it does seem what Jeff has in mind as blues perhaps isn't what I have in mind, and perhaps a few others. There's bad blues and good blues IMO, and the later isn't for lightweights.

I don't think anything said was intended against blues as a style or art form but more about the fact that blues is generally limited as a means of expanding one's overall musical vocabulary, which can be said about a lot of styles. I can only make a generalization based on my experience but I've played with some fantastic blues guitarists who play it with fluency and conviction and sound like the real deal. The problem is that they're only fluent in that style and struggle to adapt to other styles, not because of lack of talent but just because their ears aren't developed beyond one particular set of licks and patterns. As always though, there are exceptions, I just base my observation on a handful of guys who have spent there lives emulating Hendrix and Stevie Ray and do it very well but seem unable to find their own voice outside of that.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

I don't think anything said was intended against blues as a style or art form but more about the fact that blues is generally limited as a means of expanding one's overall musical vocabulary, which can be said about a lot of styles.

It is a direct slurr against blues (and other forms of music) and an intentional one. There is no doubt in Jeffs mind about any reaction it may have or what he means. Since blues is a freedom of spirit in music and words it has no limits in playing or conception. Because the canvass is sparse (simple) it leaves room for interpretation and colour.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Humility mr berlin, thats my advice for you..

Not just in music but Life....

thats the biggest diff between you and victor

Peace be with you

Speaking a fact does not imply lack of humility. It states basic truths and either one falls into this group or they do not. I do not apologize nor take back my statement that many blues bass players play this music because they have not learned any other form of music to learn. Nor do I accept that speaking the truth is somehow the antithesis of humility.

The truth is, I could care less if the overly-sensitive guys on this thread take exception to my comments. They are identifying themselves as exactly those bassists who fall into the category that I described. Any other bass player, that is, another bassist who chose blues out of the different styles that they can play never protest my comments. Why should they? I wasn't speaking about them!

People who point out non academic comments to an academically motivated statement are not in our ball field. They don't have the musical knowledge to separate art from academics, and they probably never will. The art of the blues isn't in contention here. But the academic performance and learning of it is! And only guys who can't play very well will often play the blues because they have no choice to play anything else. Hence, start learning how to play other things or you will not move past the blues, ever! If you know this and are OK with it, then you've made your artful choice for yourself.

 

[shwashwa]

id be willing to bet that jeff has recorded more than a few blues tunes, and you'll probably hear him playing a ton of stuff on it. since it is so open and free its the perfect vehicle for expression, which is why so many jazz musicians embrace it, but it can also be a harsh indicatior of the things that each musician still needs to work on. listen to someone play the blues and you'll get a decent idea of where they are at that point in time on their musical journey. i guess the point is that it is a journey and hopefully we're never letting ourselves get stagnant, but constantly moving and evolving.

 

[JeffBerlin]

id be willing to bet that jeff has recorded more than a few blues tunes, and you'll probably hear him playing a ton of stuff on it. since it is so open and free its the perfect vehicle for expression, which is why so many jazz musicians embrace it, but it can also be a harsh indicatior of the things that each musician still needs to work on. listen to someone play the blues and you'll get a decent idea of where they are at that point in time on their musical journey. i guess the point is that it is a journey and hopefully we're never letting ourselves get stagnant, but constantly moving and evolving.

A general comment: Please read what I said, not what some think that I have said. Here it is again! There are some blues bass players who only play the blues because they haven't learned enough about music to play anything else (or something like that!) The blues is the simplest form of music to play and therefore, the most attractive to some bass players who don't know how to play. Like some rock music, the blues may not give you what you want, which is an opportunity to play the bass in different ways, even to play with different musicians who have learned how to play beyond the blues or rock form.

Either one falls into this truthful category, or one does not. Only you know if you do or not. If one does and one wishes to improve and have other options, then they should look into other forms of study. It is really interesting just how sensitive some guys are over here about this. I repeat, if some protest this statement, then I have hit a nerve and I am clearing speaking about them. It is up to those to decide if they wish to do something about it, because that is all that I am about, Improvement!

 

[JeffBerlin]

I don't see anything necessarily wrong with what he said. But it does seem what Jeff has in mind as blues perhaps isn't what I have in mind, and perhaps a few others. There's bad blues and good blues IMO, and the later isn't for lightweights.

What I said is that some bass players have chosen to play the blues because they do not have the skills to play anything else. That is all that I said. Not that you commented incorrectly, but it really amazes me just how many people here are not getting this.

 

[shwashwa]

A general comment: Please read what I said, not what some think that I have said. Here it is again! There are some blues bass players who only play the blues because they haven't learned enough about music to play anything else (or something like that!) The blues is THE simplest form of music to play and, like a lot of rock, isn't going to give you what you want, which is an opportunity to play the bass in different ways, or even to play with different musicians who have learned how to play beyond the blues form.

Either one falls into this truthful categoyr, or one does not. Only you know if you do or not. If one does and one wishes to improve and have other options, then they should look into other forms of study. This is all that I meant and it is really interesting just how sensitive some guys are over here about this. I repeat, if some protest this statement, then I have hit a nerve. It is up to those to decide if they wish to do something about it, because that is all that I am about, Improvement!

maybe its just me, but when i listen to Blue Trane the word "simple" never enters my mind. i think the blues is what we make it. thats the beauty of it. Blue trane is an example of the blues in its highest form, in my opinion, and thats the point i was trying to make. some guys who play the blues stop progressing early on in their journey, and are content with that, and other guys who play the blues, like trane, practiced alittle more. the blues is a great mirror of truth as to where we are on that journey i think. when i listen to blue trane and even other blues that he recorded later, i can hear someone who was constantly evolving, isnt that your message? as opposed to some other kinds of players who reach a certian point and are satisfied with that and are frozen in time with their musical development. i have a feeling paul chambers didnt play the blues because he didnt learn enough to play anthing else. there is nothing wrong with the blues, but there's something wrong with bad blues or boring blues. i guess my overall point is that blues is great, it all depends on who is playing it, just like any other music. the statement of mine that you quoted was actually in support of your viewpoint. not sure if you realized that.

 

[BluesWalker]

HAH! Love it!

That is too funny!!!!

 

[BluesWalker]

maybe its just me, but when i listen to Blue Trane the word "simple" never enters my mind. i think the blues is what we make it. thats the beauty of it. Blue trane is an example of the blues in its highest form, in my opinion, and thats the point i was trying to make. some guys who play the blues stop progressing early on in their journey, and are content with that, and other guys who play the blues, like trane, practiced alittle more. the blues is a great mirror of truth as to where we are on that journey i think. when i listen to blue trane and even other blues that he recorded later, i can hear someone who was constantly evolving, isnt that your message? as opposed to some other kinds of players who reach a certian point and are satisfied with that and are frozen in time with their musical development. i have a feeling paul chambers didnt play the blues because he didnt learn enough to play anthing else. there is nothing wrong with the blues, but there's something wrong with bad blues or boring blues. i guess my overall point is that blues is great, it all depends on who is playing it, just like any other music. the statement of mine that you quoted was actually in support of your viewpoint. not sure if you realized that.

I don't think Blue Trane is the type of blues Jeff was thinking about. From him messages, I took away the more typical blues music one can hear in bars almost any night of the week in the styles of (without naming names but I am sure you know what I mean) Chicago style blues, Texas blues, rock blues, southern rock blues, etc..... Jazz blues is a totally different species, IMO.