Jeff Berlin Discussing Music Ed Part II

[JeffBerlin]

Given my contractual obligations, it looks like i'll have to wait till next year. I have just received my copy of Chord Studies in the mail so that will keep me occupied for now along with some Aebersold and other trombone material which i have obtained from a trombonist friend of mine(so i get the benefit of bass clef). I will mail Vicky in the meantime to consult her about pricing, etc. Thank you.

Vicky's the man (for a girl who could have been Miss Venezuela). She's the boss of all things non-musical at The Players School of Music, whereas I am the man (for a guy who used to DATE a former Miss Venezuela) who is in charge of all things musical.

Contact her when you feel up to it for some musical upgrading. Best regards!

 

[JeffBerlin]

Please excuse my use of tab but it was the only way I could represent things "geographically" as I said. There was really no rythm I just played the notes as seen from left to right. I played through the 1-3-5-7 tones and then played through them again starting from the 3-5-7-1, 5-7-1-3, etc.

I imagine that you may know what I am going to say next. You should learn music and start learning it immediately. Do the inversions on all the chord types, because this lesson is only the beginning of a million different ways to regard tonality on a bass guitar.

 

[Electric_Spank]

I am confident the conversation will continue as follows:

Me: I am trying.
Jeff: You should find a good teacher.
Me: I'm a broke college student .

After that I can't be sure. I will continue to do what I can on my own. Thanks for trying .

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

I've starting working on playing chord tones (maj7 for now). What I have been doing is limiting them to positions and then starting on whatever chord tone is available from the lowest note to highest in the register and visa versa. So, in 1st position, Cmaj7 would look like this on a 5-string bass:

What I am finding is that forcing myself to confine the exercise to a position (with the odd one fret out extension) makes me get out of the habit of using common patterns. It also shows me that I do not know my notes as well higher on the neck as I do lower down. (In all 12 keys, of course).

Would you suggest any other variations on this exercise?

 

[Eminentbass]

I am confident the conversation will continue as follows:

Me: I am trying.
Jeff: You should find a good teacher.
Me: I'm a broke college student .

After that I can't be sure. I will continue to do what I can on my own. Thanks for trying .

I'm going to go out on a limb and make a recommendation if i may. By stating "geographic" reasons for including TAB in your original post, i'm guessing you were enquiring about fingering, positioning, etc? If you understand the concept of inversions and chord tones but are looking for a way to unlock them on the fingerboard, then i'd recommend the Chord Studies for Electric Bass book that has been the rage in part 1 of this thread. It does include suggested fingerings for some of the exercises(all exercises in the key of C) but the author does stress in the foreword that they are just recommendations. He also highlights the fact that certain notes and exercises, given the nature of the bass, can be played in more than one place on the neck. The added bonus is that because of the notation, you will become aware of the actual notes(rather than just patterns) you are playing in each key, which will expand your general knowledge of chord structure, not just on the bass. The fact that it includes a lot of upper register ledger line reading means that i've had to slow down a lot and concentrate on the notes because that really is unfamiliar territory for me. Of course this book is only one method and not a substitute for a good teacher but it does contain some good food for thought. I hope this helps.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I'm going to go out on a limb and make a recommendation if i may. By stating "geographic" reasons for including TAB in your original post, i'm guessing you were enquiring about fingering, positioning, etc? If you understand the concept of inversions and chord tones but are looking for a way to unlock them on the fingerboard, then i'd recommend the Chord Studies for Electric Bass book that has been the rage in part 1 of this thread. It does include suggested fingerings for some of the exercises(all exercises in the key of C) but the author does stress in the foreword that they are just recommendations. He also highlights the fact that certain notes and exercises, given the nature of the bass, can be played in more than one place on the neck. The added bonus is that because of the notation, you will become aware of the actual notes(rather than just patterns) you are playing in each key, which will expand your general knowledge of chord structure, not just on the bass. The fact that it includes a lot of upper register ledger line reading means that i've had to slow down a lot and concentrate on the notes because that really is unfamiliar territory for me. Of course this book is only one method and not a substitute for a good teacher but it does contain some good food for thought. I hope this helps.

Evolving Bassist by Rufus Reid is also pretty fantastic, as it goes over the scales/arpeggios you will see most often (in jazz, which as Jeff has said, is fantastic for learning music). The book is FULL of walking bass lines that you can pick apart (marking chordal and passing tones down as you go).

It does require rudimentary theory though, so maybe you should do dome self-studying on music notation etc.

just my two cents, I am but only a student of the instrument for a year and two months

 

[Eminentbass]

Evolving Bassist by Rufus Reid is also pretty fantastic, as it goes over the scales/arpeggios you will see most often (in jazz, which as Jeff has said, is fantastic for learning music). The book is FULL of walking bass lines that you can pick apart (marking chordal and passing tones down as you go).

It does require rudimentary theory though, so maybe you should do dome self-studying on music notation etc.

just my two cents, I am but only a student of the instrument for a year and two months

I've got that book as well. What's cool about it if you're using it on upright is that it recommends bowing the exercises as well which forces a beginner to slow down and concentrate on hearing the notes. I've only just discovered that Rufus Reid is the bassist on the Jamie Aebersold play along series. His playing there is fantastic and great listening for anyone using the cds. The man knows how to walk.

 

[JeffBerlin]

I am confident the conversation will continue as follows:

Me: I am trying.
Jeff: You should find a good teacher.
Me: I'm a broke college student .

After that I can't be sure. I will continue to do what I can on my own. Thanks for trying .

Hang with musicians better than yourself. Listen to music that inspires variety and musical excellence. Practice as well as you can what you hear off those records. There are things that you can do. And scrape together money for a lesson with as gret a teacher as you can find and take one lesson a month and practice it in different ways. Do whatever a nearly broke young college kid has to do to keep their music fresh and growing.

 

[JeffBerlin]

I've starting working on playing chord tones (maj7 for now). What I have been doing is limiting them to positions and then starting on whatever chord tone is available from the lowest note to highest in the register and visa versa. So, in 1st position, Cmaj7 would look like this on a 5-string bass:

What I am finding is that forcing myself to confine the exercise to a position (with the odd one fret out extension) makes me get out of the habit of using common patterns. It also shows me that I do not know my notes as well higher on the neck as I do lower down. (In all 12 keys, of course).

Would you suggest any other variations on this exercise?

Start the exercise on each note and play those inversions. Do them in 12 keys. And do them in all different chord types.

BUT.....

This isn't a chord tone-defined exercise. Just so's you know! It is a maj 6/maj7-type line, OK in its substance, but not actually defining the chord of C. It is a little vague and exercises should never be vague about the nature of its intentions.

 

[Trapezius]

Hang with musicians better than yourself. Listen to music that inspires variety and musical excellence. Practice as well as you can what you hear off those records. There are things that you can do. And scrape together money for a lesson with as gret a teacher as you can find and take one lesson a month and practice it in different ways. Do whatever a nearly broke young college kid has to do to keep their music fresh and growing.

I totally agree on hanging with better musicians. This was one of the best ways to learn for me. If nothing else, then just for the inspiration to improve and become as good as them.

 

[JeffBerlin]

I totally agree on hanging with better musicians. This was one of the best ways to learn for me. If nothing else, then just for the inspiration to improve and become as good as them.

If you aren't studying music properly, then this might be one of the best ways to learn how to play. But, there are distinct good and bad via this learning route because this blends art and learning which isn't a good way to learn. But, some do and you should know this. Still, if you learned via a great teacher and played with musicians better than yourself, then you are situated in THE perfect environment for musical improvement.

P.S. Good for you guys for not turing this thread into a B.S. discussion thread. IGNORE THE GUYS WHO CLEARLY ARE HERE FOR NO GOOD REASON! I like this last few comments. Do you? Keep it up! We are on a roll.

Jeff

 

[engedi1]

I am confident the conversation will continue as follows:

Me: I am trying.
Jeff: You should find a good teacher.
Me: I'm a broke college student .

After that I can't be sure. I will continue to do what I can on my own. Thanks for trying .

Also, transcriptions are real cheap! You can download a few Oscar Peterson tunes with Ray Brown or playing walking bass lines for $.99 on itunes. If you transcribe these note for note that will teach you an awful lot about inversions (and everything else for that matter)
Also, if you ask real nice, I am sure the bass teacher at your college will give you a lesson maybe on a monthly basis, which is better than no lesson.

 

[Trapezius]

If you aren't studying music properly, then this might be one of the best ways to learn how to play. But, there are distinct good and bad via this learning route because this blends art and learning which isn't a good way to learn. But, some do and you should know this. Still, if you learned via a great teacher and played with musicians better than yourself, then you are situated in THE perfect environment for musical improvement.

P.S. Good for you guys for not turing this thread into a B.S. discussion thread. IGNORE THE GUYS WHO CLEARLY ARE HERE FOR NO GOOD REASON! I like this last few comments. Do you? Keep it up! We are on a roll.

Jeff

Yes, it's not a perfect way. Now I wanna find a great teacher and do some serious work. There's always so much more to learn in music. I wish I did this in the beginning.

Once again, thanks for being here and talking with us. You have offered lots of great advice.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Yes, it's not a perfect way. Now I wanna find a great teacher and do some serious work. There's always so much more to learn in music. I wish I did this in the beginning.

Once again, thanks for being here and talking with us. You have offered lots of great advice.

Good for you. You are in the minority of bassists who look for musical improvement on its own terms. Great stuff!

Many bassists talk the talk but don't walk the walk. If I seem hard, it is because Talkbass is sometimes a place for a lot of non-substantive interaction. I agree that it all doesn't have to be hardcore, but I've read some of the posts that are around here and I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people need musical help. And so I offer it.

But, many bass players here don't want the help because they aren't interested in music. They are interested in coming here to talk about music. Still, there are a handful of guys, dedicated to music (like Trapezius seems to be) and all that goes with finding ways to improve as a player, from some pure beginners to a few old codgers around my age and beyond who have decided that it is time to learn better the instrument that they profess to love so much.

There are a few guys who come to my thread and make no decent musical offerings, just yak. But, I also have noticed a few guys who appear to deeply wish for some musical enlightenment. These are the guys who I want to help. In case of point, it might amaze some guys just how many well known bassists have no interest in what is said or done on Talkbass based on its reputation. Some of those guys who have contaminated Talkbass appear here but, they are blocked by me, un-read, un-noticed and never to be responded to. I know someone needing validation when I read them.

Still, I told them that mixed in with the guys who talk the talk are some guys who deeply want to improve musically. The serious guys are the reason that I am here. If others who are reading this have an interest in music, then I invite you to drop in at anytime. I define "serious" as someone who needs to know, not who needs to find loopholes in logic of learning. Some here do and I know who they are, and therefore they are unread when I see their names, and never to be answered.

I might be one of the first guys on Talkbass to make this stand for a modern Talkbass 2010 (you know me. When I see something wrong, I put myself into the fray). I am certain that that some of you guys also know who the knuckleheads on Talkbass are. If people want a sewing circle, then please go elsewear. On my thread, let's continue the musical thing because I am really determined to make our thread something legendary, a truly dedicated group of guys into music, into the learning of it, and into the promotion of musical academia in all its wonderful facets. Thanks for reading.

 

[Commreman]

The chord tone studies have opened up a new world for me.

Prior, my "theory" learning was related to scales, modes, intervals, and arpeggios; the chord tone studies have been tying this all together in a very melodic way! In going through the Paul Chambers book, it is becoming much easier to see where he was coming from with how his solos were designed, and I have been able to apply what I have been learning in the context of coming up with more interesting parts for the music I have been performing. It is a lot easier for me to see where Jamerson was coming from as well.

I have a long way to go, but as they say, inch by inch life's a cinch - yard by yard, life is hard! Small, steady progress is yielding results. Thanks Jeff!

 

[Eminentbass]

Thank you Jeff. Often as players we get into creative ruts but there are academic ruts as well where we aren't learning new information. I can only speak for myself but I get frustrated by sitting down and just regurgitating exercises, scales, or anything that i've already learned. It's difficult to go into detail on musical facts online because without face to face contact we can't demonstrate questions or answers but if anything, this thread has motivated me to seek out new information(via certain topics and suggestions here) and adjust my general attitude towards revitalising my musical growth and quest for knowledge.

 

[Billnc]

Jeff,
When I'm doing any sort of study, say leading tones to chord tones, I will then improvise using only that concept (after doing the written work), is this still valid as an academic principle? Is it best to stick to only written studies for the academics?

 

[Toronto Bassist]

Jeff, there's something I was curious about and that's your opinion on the use of fakebooks. When I was in college way back when, one of the teachers said that all of those fakebooks should be tossed in the river; students should instead transcribe the chord changes themselves.

Now, I'm not averse to transcribing, but it seems like the "real" chord changes to some of those old standards can be a bit of a moving target. I mean, the changes for "Green Dolphin Street" could vary depending on whether you learn the Sarah Vaughn, Miles Davis, or Chick Corea (etc.) version, no?

 

[JeffBerlin]

The chord tone studies have opened up a new world for me.

Prior, my "theory" learning was related to scales, modes, intervals, and arpeggios; the chord tone studies have been tying this all together in a very melodic way! In going through the Paul Chambers book, it is becoming much easier to see where he was coming from with how his solos were designed, and I have been able to apply what I have been learning in the context of coming up with more interesting parts for the music I have been performing. It is a lot easier for me to see where Jamerson was coming from as well.

I have a long way to go, but as they say, inch by inch life's a cinch - yard by yard, life is hard! Small, steady progress is yielding results. Thanks Jeff!

Pleasure! It is interesting how many bass players do not know about chord tones and all that go with them. Avoid the scales and just deal with the chords and you will learn tons of music that is not available at this time.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Jeff, there's something I was curious about and that's your opinion on the use of fakebooks. When I was in college way back when, one of the teachers said that all of those fakebooks should be tossed in the river; students should instead transcribe the chord changes themselves.

Now, I'm not averse to transcribing, but it seems like the "real" chord changes to some of those old standards can be a bit of a moving target. I mean, the changes for "Green Dolphin Street" could vary depending on whether you learn the Sarah Vaughn, Miles Davis, or Chick Corea (etc.) version, no?

Even records aren't exactly in agreement with the chord changes for certain tunes. One guy plays a commonly known tune "this way" but the other guy used "these chord changes". The only real justification for transcribing the chords of a jazz tune is for homework reasons. In fact, this is great work to do. But for practical purposes, just use the best fake books that you can find and play out of them even though many fake books are often not correct about the chords in the songs. In fact, they often are not in agreement at all.